Engine back in car update and questions!

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Engine back in car update and questions!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 03:38 pm:

After re connecting everything,And getting the wiring straightened out and back to 6 volts, drained the tank and put fresh gas in,turned the mixture screw out 1 turn and attempted to start the car, she started right up,but ran lousy with a lot of smoke (wife now wants to kill me). While trying to things to smooth her out,( advance timing, back off throttle, adjusting mixture screw,etc) I noticed that she smoothed out quite a bit when the mixture screw was almost fully closed!!! I shit the car off and noticed that the intake manifold was ice cold, (almost frosty)! While the car was running, I switched tho mag and she ran so I am assuming that the mag is working ok after all of that work on it which I am very happy about! To tell you the truth, I was having my doubts on whether she would ever run again after all of this!!!! I want to now try and figure out what is going on with the fuel system, thank's guys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 04:19 pm:

Dennis don't s:;%# the car off. It makes for a smelly ride but I'll ask the most obvious question do you have a carb heater pipe attached? In fair balance i do not run a T with a heater pipe connected but it may help you. From my flying days I can tell you your carb becomes like a Venturi and as the fuel goes through you will have over a 70 degree change from ambient temperature to forced air / fuel mixture that can cause the icing. In addition you can compound this by having to little fuel getting into the carb. I live in the Deep South and the only time I've ever had an issue with icing was when I leaned the fuel mixture too lean causing it and making the engine temp increase from lack of waste fuel to help cool it. Just my thoughts but I don't know anything


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 04:25 pm:

Don't worry about the cold, or even frosty, manifold. It doesn't hurt a thing. It's just a factor of how the air moves thru there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 10:06 pm:

i was more concerned about the fact that I had to almost close the mixture screw to get it to smooth out, i have a new heater pipe but have not installed it because it ran ok without it before i took the engine out. Last year I replaced the float valve with the ball type but before I reinstalled the carb, I decided to put in a new "original" style and re set the float. after shutting the car off today, and noticing that the manifold was ice cold, I then noticed that gas was dripping from the throat of the carb so I removed the carb to check the float and decided to remove both manifolds and noticed that there was a lot of carbon on and around the second port so I don't think the exhaust manifold was sealed properly. I previously ordered new copper rings and glands and will install them tomorrow to see what happens!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 07:44 am:

If the carburetor is working properly you should be able to kill the engine by closing the mixture valve. Often people over the years will try to clean up the mixture valve and in the process it becomes too short. You probably need to replace the mixture needle and the main jet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 12:24 pm:

Thank's Royce, I will check it today, I am pretty sure that I replaced the long needle valve and seat a couple of years ago though! I am wondering if the float valve was somehow stuck open causing the carb to flood and have so much gas that the mixture needle became almost ineffective? I'll know more when I take it apart again today, it is strange the way it ran like crap until I almost had the mixture screw bottomed out, when I did turn the screw the last 1/4 turn to bottom it out, the engine finally died.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 09:24 pm:

Update: Today I noticed that when the gas is turned on, gas began dripping out of the throat of the carb, so I figured it has something to do with the float valve. before I put the carb back together the other day, I decided to change out the gross jet ball valve that was in there and replaced it with a new seat and original style needle valve (steel, not vitron). I took the carb apart a little while ago and could not see anything amiss, but the problem has to be the float valve not shutting the gs off when the bowl is filled i would think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 10:02 pm:

I pulled the float seat out and there does not appear to be a gasket under the seat, does anyone know if this could cause the float to not shut off the gas supply when the bowl is full? Just want to know before i put it back together because I can't see anything else that could cause this type of problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 10:21 pm:

There should be a gasket under the seat. See https://www.modeltford.com/item/6212OR.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Bourgeois,Aldergrove BC,Can. on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 11:55 pm:

Dennis, here is a drawing by Martin Vowell. He is one awesome artist that does a lot of these kinds of drawings.
Do hope this helps.

PaulB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:40 pm:

This makes absolutely no sense at all, I took it apart again, everything looks good, I made sure the gasket was in place for the float seat, made sure the float was set at 1/4 ", reinstalled the carb and when I turned the gas on, the carb started dripping after a couple of seconds (drips from the throat of the carb (where the heat pipe would attach), I don't understand what could be happening because after I put the float needle in I checked that it was opening and closing by blowing in the inlet!!!!! It seems to be working fine when I do that. I will now re install the grose jet ball valve and see if it still leaks, don't know what else I can try!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 01:50 pm:

Don't put the Grose jet back, they are a constant source of trouble in gravity fed fuel systems.
Problem is that there are issues with repro steel float valves too - usually they have to be ground smooth to seal good, just like the old used needles they're supposed to replace :-(

Read this thread for suggestions on how: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/508178.html?1422895026


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 01:55 pm:

After providing a nice finish on the needle, you might set the needle in the seat and give it a little "love tap" to imprint the seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 02:51 pm:

Thank's Roger, I had already put the grose jet back in before I saw your post! Got everything back together,turned the gas on and no leaking, but when I tried to start the car it would not start and seemed like it wasn't getting any gas. after playing around with it ( mixture and choking it , she finally puttered a few times and started, I let it run for a few minutes , but she was running lousy (backfiring a little bit and missing, as i played with the mixture screw she did smooth out quite a bit but is still not running right and I think it has something to do with fuel delivery (grose jet) so I will take your suggestion and try a seat the steal float needle and reinstall it until I order a new one with the vitrol tip and see what happens! but now I have to recharge the battery (one drawback for 6 volts, is I don't get a lot of cranking time on it if she doesn't start right away!) I'll give it a tap and see if that works, I happened to read that in the manual but when I ordered this float and seat, it said "improved" original design, what ever that means, so I didn't think the tap would be necessary!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 03:23 pm:

Dennis, note the Viton tip comments by Craig Anderson and me in the link Roger posted above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 04:45 pm:

Dennis,
If the carb bowl is dry when you put it on, the fuel filling the bowl can gain enough momentum that the valve won't shut off. I usually turn on the fuel, count to ten, turn it off, wait a few seconds, then turn it back on again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 11:08 pm:

OK Steve, got it! looks like I should try and clean up the new steel needle and re seat it, thank's. I did get the car running with the grose jet today, but it is still not right so i will try and do the steel valve and seat tomorrow and see what happens. Thank's Dave , I was just turning the gas on full, waiting for it to fill up for a few seconds and noticed it leaking from the throat, did'nt think of trying to open it again after shutting it off. Like stan h said in the previous thread, I can't believe that you would have to do extra work on such a small item that costs almost 20 bucks, it should work out of the package!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie, Memphis TN on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 11:51 pm:

If she runs but sputters and backfires, I would at least take the time to make sure the firing order is correct, and all four coils are buzzing. Also that the timer's insides are clean.

This will sound strange, but also check that all four spark plugs are tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 07:17 pm:

well, I checked the new steel needle valve and seat thoroughly, everything appears nice and smooth, I gave it a wack to seat it, re checked it by blowing into the inlet and made sure that it was shutting off completely when a little finger pressure was placed on it, reinstalled and re set the float to 1/4 ", re checked by blowing into the inlet and making sure it closed all the way, put it back on the car, started the car and smoothed it out with the mixture screw, (still ran a little "rough" but ok in general, then... drip, drip, drip, out of the carb throat!!!!!! It boggles the mind!!!! I think I will try and reset the float to 3/8" and see what happens, what a pain, off, on, off, on, etc. !!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 08:34 pm:

I had exactly the same problem on my '23 NH. Check to see if the bowl vent is clogged. The upper end of the vent is the little horizontal passage just behind the choke shaft. You can see it in the drawing posted above; it looks like it has a little plug sticking out of it (which if it is, it shouldn't be there). Use a drill bit to clear it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 08:45 pm:

the small hole right behind the choke plate pin is open. I changed the float setting to 3/8" and reinstalled it, no more drip, but the car runs rough. It changes and bogs down when I adjust the mixture valve so that appears ok, It is drive able but still not right and I think it has something to do with the fuel system as opposed to the electrical system. I had tried to order a rebuilt carb awhile back so I wouldn't have to do all this hit or miss stuff, but they didn't have any available at the time, I think I will try again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 09:01 pm:

The method I used to find out why my carburettor kept flooding was to temporarily sit it on a shallow glass jar with the fuel connected via a flexible hose.
This way, I could see what the float level really was, what the fuel level in the bowl would be, and exactly where the fuel kept coming from.
It turned out the Grose valve was leaky - surprising because I'd installed it not long before. I've not had any trouble since installing the neoprene tipped kind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 09:01 pm:

Have you checked out your float in hot to boiling water ? A sinking float will act like what's going on also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 09:18 pm:

From what I read I think you are on the right track. Sometimes a little dirt gets behind the needle and will cause it to leak. When I shut off my T to park it, I like to tap the carburetor. That will sometimes release the float, which might be sticking.

Another think that you might do is after the engine has been warmed up, try to tighten the manifold bolts. They will settle just like the head does and when you tighten them it compresses the gasket. Sometimes the intake manifold will draw in a little air around the gaskets which is noticeable at idle or slow speeds. It leans the mixture.

However from your description I think your mixture has been rich.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 09:38 pm:

Well, I spoke too soon in that, although it took a few seconds more after I put the new float valve and seat back in, It still drips gasoline from the throat of the carb when the gas is turned on even though the float is set at 3/8"! On another note, I started the car, she starts pretty quick, and runs ok at fast idle but still runs rough when I idled her down, I tightened the manifold bolts and I think they are sealed ok, I let the car run for a few minutes while messing with it and she began overheating, which is unusual for this car since I installed the modern brassworks radiator years ago so now I am thin king maybe I screwed up the timing somehow when I re installed the timer after getting the engine back together!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 09:42 pm:

p.s. the float itself does not appear to be heavy or filled in anyway, it appears to be made of thin brass!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 02:58 pm:

Steve has a purdy good memory....... :-O
For the record the "clip thingy" I mentioned in the thread to which he refers is shown in this photo.
You have to be careful buying needle and seat kits because some come WITH the clip, which attaches to the needle and float lever, and some don't.
Don't get a don't.

clip thingy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 11:24 am:

the one I have does not have a clip with it and I don't remember ever having one, but wouldn't the clip just prevent it from sticking closed not open? my problem seems to be that it is not seating properly, but when I have it off the car, it seems to work exactly as it is supposed to when I blow into the inlet and put a little pressure on the float, she seals ok, cannot blow any air through it! I even tried the clear mason jar idea, filled it with water , lowered the carb onto the top of it (without the bowl), and could not blow into the inlet without lifting the carb to let the float down a little! For it to leak while on the car but not off just seems to defy logic!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 12:16 pm:

Did you clean out the idle air passages? most are plugged up with rust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 12:19 pm:

Is it leaking around the float valve, as Stan described?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 01:14 pm:

Are you using any kind of tape on the threads of the inlet fittings. Need to use Fuel Lube. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 01:18 am:

I re installed the float valve and needle today and the leak seems to have stopped, don't know what the problem was, but the car still runs lousy, stumbling ,etc on idle. I will check the plugs and see if they may be carboned up from all of this messing around! Yes, I had previously cleaned all of the passages and re plugged the ones that had plugs with 1/8" brass rod.(but they were not plugged and looked to be in good shape!,
no tape on threads. thank's


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration