I am mounting an enclosed cab onto a TT frame can anyone tell me if wood blocks are used and how they install thanks in advance
Kenneth, my research says no based on my 25. Someone more knowledgeable may explain history or correct me. I have frame welt I have used at the metal to metal points. Hope that helps. TS
Yes, they use wood blocks. I am not in a position to take pix or go look at them right now.
You will likely also shim the cab to get a proper alignment with the forward body parts.
You didn't say what year TT or if you're mounting a Ford cab or one made by others. Either way I think I'd set the cab in place and see how it lines up with the firewall. It should be readily apparent whether blocks are needed or not.
Just my $0.02 worth.
If you get a chance please pass on what you know about the wood blocking.
Kenneth, can you clarify it is the ford steel enclosed cab as we might assume from your question?
I am curious now as to the factory blocking.
Yes it is a Ford enclosed cab going onto a 1922 TT frame
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding was that the factory steel cab was not available until 1924. As such, the TT (Ton-Truck) body mounts / measurements could be different since the '22 would be of a DIY approach. Having a '26 TT steel-bodied stake-bed myself, I do have measurements & drawings I've acquired and kept. Let me know if they would help.
The 1922 frame will have single hole mounts front and rear. The closed cab would require the double hole mounts to sit properly and wood blocks are required for the front. Below is a link that covers the issue and there are some pictures of how a closed cab is mounted to an early frame. This should be exactly what you need.
We had this discussion in a previous thread, where I posted photos. Perhaps someone
smarter than me can find it and provide a link ??? Finding someone smarter than me should
be no challenge, but where that thread is .... ?
As I remember it, age, use, vibration, metal fatigue all lead to sagging, and what we find
90 years on is that things down line up, repairs have been made, etc. and the ol' trucks
just don't fit in their britches like they oughta. In the case of my 26, both cowl-to-frame
brackets had broken off and rather than take them off and weld them properly, a previous
owner found it better to remove the wood blocks and do the finest cob-job overlap welds
on the brackets, IN their collapsed position !!!
Naturally, the cab tilted forward, binding on the hood, and shoving the radiator top forward.
I was pretty green on T's at the time, so I did not know what was "stock", but general body
alignment science applies to all vehicles, so a few questions were asked of my T-guru friends
and I made up a series of blocks at 1/8th increments, based off a measurement I took from
the jacked up (and looking "about right") cab, and began messing with different blocks until
I found a happy balance.
Incidentally, the block on one side was smaller than the block on the other side. This was
probably due to that 90+ years of wear and tear mentioned earlier. But that is what the whole
concept of body shimming is about, so it's all good.
I then installed my new (repaired old) cowl-to-frame brackets, ... which lined up nicely on
the holes, confirming I had dialed it it pretty close. and bolted it all together.
White Oak or hickory is the best wood for this, as it wears like a pig's nose. Be aware that
hickory is mother nature's equivalent answer to cutting steel or glass, and should be handled
with care when sawing, especially small pieces that get one's hands near the whizzing blade.
I agree with Marv and Burger. If it's a Ford enclosed can on a '22 TT frame, nothing will line up. Use angle irons on all 4 corners to get the correct placement of the mounting holes. But then carriage bolts in the cowl won't line up with the 5 rib firewall. That's where the hard wood blocks come in...
Thanks guys (esp Burger for taking the time to type), always helpful information for me. Hopefully Kenneth feels he knows his options. As usual with the TT's, it is not always clear as to what exactly was done 90+/- years ago let alone what happened in between then and now. Fun stuff. Is this a form of archeology or do we have to bury it and then dig it up before start research? All in fun.
Let me add this bit .... and remember, I do old cars, ESPECIALLY my choice of doing TT's from
a paradigm of "down on the farm" Americana. I have no use for high falootin' car shows and axxhat
judges doling out plastic trophies. I do it because my efforts put this glorious hunk of steaming junk
back out there on the road, to be seen by the unsuspecting, and putting big smiles on the many ....
I want my vehicles to look as if a person slipped a gear in the time warp and suddenly (even if just
for a moment) it might as well be 1939 or 1958. I want them to look good, but not so #@! perfect that
they look fake or contrived. Kapische ?
Nobody besides axxhats are going to give a hoot how your body is mounted to the frame. They ARE
going to notice it looks like hell when nothing lines up, right ? Now, this is not to say "don't TRY to do
it as close to stock as possible, but no one down on the farm was calling Henry Ford up in 1932 to
verify how that truck cab was "supposed to be" mounted when they had to correct some sagging
metal issue. Hell no. They had potatoes to harvest or lumber to move, and none of this mattered
when there was a farm to run !
Now, I want to stop for a moment and let that soak in. Henry owned your truck for months, at best.
On the flip side, it was a fixture of the everyday American landscape for DECADES ! Which do YOU
feel holds the stronger hand in historical representation when it comes to presenting it back onto the
American roadscape ??? For me, just like in the original "movie", it starts with Henry and then moves
on down the road to fixed and modified and fixed again to a place where it looks like those Dust Bowl
photos of the escaping Okies heading to California. Somewhere in that mix is the "right look" for a
Back to the build .... so, the lower rear edge of the cab mounts with a piece of angle iron. That's a
good place to start. Both of mine sit right on the frame. It's the front that has either seen sagging of
the frame or whatever that requires some modern day love to get things squared away. But be prepared
to look at all support points, because all options are open when the priority is making it look good.
So, locate the cab roughly on the frame and using a couple 4x4's, positioned crosswise to the frame,
pile some blocks on them to reach through the frame and contact the cab floor. All of this will be raised
off the floor on more blocks so a jack can be stuck under the ends of the long 4x4's to raise and lower
as you try to find that perfect location and alignment.
The cowl-to-frame brackets should be in place, as well as the radiator, shell, and rod. Hood is kept
nearby for fitment checks, and I should mention that the frame should be level and the radiator plumb.
Now, it's just a matter bringing it all together to where the hood fits right and the cab is solidly supported
on the frame. On the trucks, you don't have all the splash aprons, so fenders and other sheetmetal is
irrelevant for this process. Add it later.
I am unfamiliar with a 22 frame, so I will presume it may take some special drilling of holes, or welding
in place of some special brackets to support the later cab. Just remember, make it as clean as Henry
would approve of, but also that Farmer Brown would have done it the quickest and easiest possible
way to get that fancy closed cab on that old open cab frame, so he could get back to the harvest as
quickly as possible. Because THAT is what these trucks are .... Americana, captured in rolling metal.
Philosophy and metal working, all rolled into one neat package !
I am smiling at this. Works in my world. My TT has seen some changes on its journey from what I know and is seeing some new ones again, so I am paying it forward so to speak. Will finish sorting out the livingood shortly and do appreciate the cab mounts above, as I am dealing with all of the years bends and twists. Doors do shut pretty well all things considered. Still looking for a picture of a livingood TT if anyone has really seen one done.
Thanks everyone I guess with all model T stuff there are a lot of ways to do a job and they are all good if the results prove good I am installing a steel cab I bought across the country years ago on my dad's 1922 dump truck wish he was still here to see it thanks again. Ken