Had the Wilson Estate auction Saturday the 11th, had some Model T Stuff, had a few Model T buyers, not the crowd of them I would have expected since we were 50 miles from Great Falls and only 100 miles from the Alberta border but enough to buy it all and take it home. The cut down pickup made from a Tudor brought $4500, the TT express box project truck brought $1150, Ruckstell bought $750, the engines $100 - 250, and a pallet with four Warfords in various conditions brought $50 each for choice, one guy took three and another guy bought the rest of the pallet for $50 with one Warford case and a Ford overdrive from the 50's or 60's. Everybody seemed happy with what they bought, they drove the pickup home about 30 miles to Choteau.
The 1915 REO brought $21,750 and is going to Maine. The 50 Chevy Pickup 6500 and the 50 Packard $10,000. Started at 10, done at 5, by the time I left yesterday virtually everything was gone. It's like when the circus comes to town, the day after there's nothing left but a little Elephant dung and some memories.
I think that was top dollar for the Reo, from what I could see it was a 1916 (not a 1915 as advertised), and as such not eligible for HCCA events (well, unless they can prove it was built before January 1, 1916!)....
Opinions varied on the year, most people thought it was a 16 but the paperwork, title, history we had pointed to it being sold in late 15. The car has been known in Montana since virtually the day it was sold new. It had pioneer plate #19 so it's been around here for a long time.
Generally speaking, nobody in Montana gives a rat's about the HCCA, the ACCA and the other nose in the air car clubs. There are people here with little tiny car collections and people here with several million dollars worth of cars and I doubt if 1% of them belong to or care about either club. Those are East Coast/West Coast concerns, not Montana. I belonged to the HCCA for awhile, had to rejoin to post the ad but that was the only reason. I went to an HCCA convention in Pasadena years ago. They agreed I could go to the banquet without a Tux but they didn't like it. I left early. That's a whole different world than Montana where the local oil baron or rancher with a couple million dollars worth of cattle is setting at the cafe visiting with his friend who hasn't got a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of. He might own a suit but it only gets worn once in a great while for weddings and funerals.
One of the richest people in the world has a ranch about 50 miles north of here. He and his sons show up at the local team ropings; they fly in from San Francisco in their private jet, go to the ranch, load their horses and drive to an old falling down arena to team rope with the local guys for a couple hours on Wednesday night once or twice a month. They don't buy million dollar roping horses, they raise 'em and train 'em. They fit in pretty well in Montana.
The underbidder at $20,000 also planned to keep it original.
It is going to a collector in Maine who likes REO's and who will keep the car original; probably clean it up and do a little work on the upholstery. IMHO, it would be a shame to restore it.
It was fun getting it running, quite a few people came to the auction just to see it one last time as they remembered Cliff taking it the local parades in the area. I hate to see it leave Montana but it's going to a good home.
"Not eligible" .... Why doesn't this forum have a puking icon ???
Stan, I didn't get to say hi, but bought the 25 pick up box. You were pretty busy! Thanks, will have the box on my 25 for next years events. Duane Markuson
Thanks, I tried to get a minute to say Howdy but we were trying to roll on and the other auctioneer wouldn't know a Ruckstell from a Warford from an Aluminum hogshead. Thanks for coming down, I'm glad you got that box.
A 1915 Reo are nice looking and running automobiles. This one was probably made in 1915, since HCCA eligible for national tours. These tours are fun. Any old auto made up thru 1929 can attend local HCCA tours. Almost any old auto can tag along on local tours., I own a 1910 T, but often drive my 1931 A roadster on local tours. As to Reo autos, there was very original 1915 Reo touring near Stillwater MN as late as 1955. It had only about 1,700miles on it and had had been in dry storage since 1916. White tires. It was sold and I do not know where it is today.
Here in the Vancouver area that Reo would definitely have been allowed on all our HCCA events. We encourage all vehicles under 1928 to come out. I've been going to HCCA tours for the last 35 years all over the northwest and I have never been to a banquet where you had to wear a tux. We don't have any dress code at all for our banquets. Most people do though take the opportunity to dress in era clothing. That's lots of fun and adds to the enjoyment of being on tour. But some also wear jeans. It's not a big deal.
Stan you'll probably enjoy reading the Gazette that you get with membership to the HCCA. It's the best antique car magazine out there in my opinion. Lots of T stuff in it too. Check out the great cover shot this month with Tom's original 11 T Touring on it. That was taken on last years HCCA Skagit tour which was a very good event.
I just came in from several hours of doing book work related to the auction and noticed that I posted the wrong price on the cut down tudor. It brought $5300.
Ken, I had a good time on the tours and events at the Pasadena convention. Got to go see Jay Leno's garage and later his TV show. It was fun and most of the people seemed OK. As few were there to let everybody know how rich they were. But the stated requirement for the Saturday night banquet was Tuxedo for the men and evening wear for the ladies. That was about 20 years ago, I never felt any need to go back. I excused myself right after the dinner was served and went to a Bluegrass concert at the Little Church, came back later and went to some Dr's house for dessert. Left in the morning and never went back. I drove my Eldorado convertible down to California in February. It was a fun trip but some of them were a little too stuffy for me.
I agree that the magazine is good. I'm just not much interested in most of those cars.
This is for Burger......cut and paste,use at will---
I was pointing out the "eligible for HCCA" because that distinction makes a difference in values of cars. There were some great cars built in the years between 1916 and 1925, the nickel years....if I caused someone to puke, I apologize...
Maybe we need an "undies in a bunch", icon.
Right, Michael, and people wonder why a lot of us no longer participate in this forum or the hobby in general to much of any degree.
I was there at Pasadena. The REQUIREMENT was: Black Tuxedo for men and period evening wear for the ladies. I asked about just wearing a sport coat and was told I could rent a Tuxedo. I told the old bat in charge that I wasn't about to rent one, buy one or wear one. They said they "guessed" it would be alright but they obviously were not happy about it. She pointed out that it was right on the registration form that it was a requirement for men. I wore a $1000 custom made black western sport coat and custom made western tie from my stage apparel, a pair of nice Wranglers and a pair of $1000 + custom made full quill Ostrich Paul Bond boots with a map of Montana inlaid in the tops and a silver star where my ranch is. I also wore a $500 custom made 20x Beaver hat by Rand's Custom Hatters in Billings. I can go anywhere in Montana including dinner at the Governor's mansion in that outfit and it damn sure cost more than any rented Tuxedo. It was obvious some people, including one woman at the table I was seated at and the one who told me I could rent a tux, did not think my attire was appropriate. I had paid for the dinner so I ate. Then I left and went to a Bluegrass show. I went back for dessert.
I had those clothes with me because I was playing some concert dates in California and Nevada and had come from the National Cowboy Poetry Gathering in Elko, Nevada where I had played a couple gigs. I went from Pasadena to Arizona and worked some dates there. All of that is part of the reason I was driving my Eldorado convertible.
Friday night while they were doing something at the convention I went to Bakersfield, parked it under the spotlights at Buck Owens Crystal Palace and took some photos of the Cadillac, me with the Cadillac and me with the bronze of Buck Owens that was done by my friend Bill Rains from Billings. For me, that was more fun than sitting through whatever was going on at the convention. Country Music, pretty girls and whiskey fit me better than stuffy people at a convention.
I stayed until Monday, went to the tonight show with the group since I had drawn one of the 30 tickets and wanted to see him perform since I had enjoyed the tour of his collection so much. Next morning I hooked up my equipment/wardrobe trailer and headed east; worked my shows in Victorville and a couple down the coast and headed for Arizona and Texas. They got in their million dollar motorhomes or private jets and went home. They didn't miss me and I didn't miss them. They all knew each other and I was the outsider but still had a good time and made some new friends including Lindley Bothwell who felt so bad that I didn't pick an orange off his trees that he sent me a box of his fruit when I got home. He thought it so strange that a man my age had never seen an Orange growing on a tree.
But they damn sure weren't happy that I didn't have on a Tux for the banquet.
If that is having my "undies in a bunch" so be it.
I have heard the tours are more relaxed and more fun. I don't have a car to go on them and seldom have time to do anything other than work; when I do I try to spend my time doing something I enjoy away from what makes my living.
You can wear whatever you want wherever you want to wear it but I have not and will not wear a Monkey suit. And I damn sure won't have anybody tell me I have to. They did and they didn't like it when I didn't. They have their rules and I have mine.
Stan;I have had my doubts about u, but after reading this, u have got to be one of us.
I wonder if my formal wear Bibb's would have made the cut? I wonder if a tie would have helped,after all some on Hee Haw wore tie's with bibb's. Bud.
Stan, I won't wear a monkey suit either. I had to wear a suit and tie for way too many years, now I only wear them for weddings and funerals.
Stan I couldn't agree more with you. It's not the clothes that make the person. I was invited by a dear friend of mine to attend the Emmys a couple of times (he has won 5 of them for television & broadcasting) but I declined when he said that I need to wear a tux. He smiled and knew I wouldn't but he wanted me to be there.
I wear a tux very seldom, but have observed that when I do wear one, people tend to ply me with booze.
This was the St. Louis-Stuttgart Sister Cities Winterball some years ago.
Stan-I am sorry you had such a bad experience at an HCCA event.
I will say that most of us are anything but a formal bunch. We just love driving our early cars. In fact, that's one of the reasons our annual conventions (like the one you attended in Pasadena) typically include a (3-5 day) tour.
Next year's convention is in Oklahoma City for 4 days before Chickasha. What a great week of fun! Load up a pre-16 car, bring some friends and come tour and please let us change your opinion of the HCCA.
At the dinner, everyone is welcome to dress as formal or as casual as they like.
Since the topic has turned to HCCA bashing, I'll throw my two cents in. I was perfectly happy driving my '14 Touring on local Model T tours. My wife enjoyed this too. But, then I learned that I could drive it on the New London to New Brighton pre-tours. While that event is not an HCCA event, I met a lot of nice HCCA folks and developed a longing to own a 1908 or earlier car that I could use on the big tour.
A couple of the local HCCA folks encouraged me to join their chapter. They welcomed my Family into their group. On one tour in Wisconsin, my wife had the opportunity to ride in an early Maxwell and a two-cylinder Buick. She enjoyed it so much, that she encouraged me to find a two-cylinder car. She even helped to fee up cash in the family budget for the purchase.
Nobody ever raises an eyebrow at the way we dress, or the fact that I wash our cars annually, whether they need it or not. Our Model T is as welcome as our Maxwell is on all local tours. In short, I'm proud to be a member of the Great Northern Model T Club (MTFCA), the T Totalers Model T Club (MTFCI), and the Twin Cities Regional Group of the HCCA. All three clubs offer great touring opportunities with nice people. None of them ever ask me to polish my brass and enter a show.
I have been in and out of the HCCA since 1967, even before I first joined with the MTFCA. Some of the time, I have had HCCA qualifying cars, sometimes not. But I have always gotten along well with the HCCA people just fine.
I do like era appearing attire, but do not believe it to be necessary. I do prefer to look like I belong to the car. None of the local groups I know require it, and nobody I know well has a problem with modern attire on tours or at dinners. As a matter of fact, most would think what Stan H wore at that dinner would have been more than excellent! I myself have a Stetson "Tom Mix" hat I have worn a few times! I look darn good in that and my breaches with leather puttees.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I had a fine time at the convention in Pasadena. I met some great people and a few pompous jerks. I especially enjoyed Lindley Bothwell and kept in touch with he and Ann for several years after that convention. It is the only HCCA event I ever attended and although I don't recall exactly the year it was when they were just beginning the making of the Titanic movie and Lindley and several other people were very involved in the so called Renault that would go down with the ship in the movie.
I have never been to any other event they put on and their dress code may have only been for that Saturday night banquet at that convention. I do not know. But they were pretty adamant about the Tux requirement and a couple of the old bats running the deal were pretty testy with me and two or three other guys who did not meet their minimum standards. I belonged to the club and got their magazine for years and read through some of the whining about falling membership and financial problems and how people were not supporting the club and the several changes in management they went through. Maybe some of that was related to their policies and maybe not. I don't know and I don't really care. But I stand by my statement that I was told I could rent a tux if I wanted to attend the banquet when I asked about it. Some old primped and pounded gal and her liquored up and lacquered down escort at our table made a couple comments about how the club was just falling apart, they were letting riff raff join and people didn't even dress for the dinners anymore etc., which were obviously directed at me. I was not the only person at that table that noticed it and commented on it later, either.
I have worn a Tux once in my life, I looked like a fat fool and felt like a fat fool in a monkey suit and will never wear one again unless they try to bury me in one, which they have better not if they know what's good for them.
I'm glad you all love the HCCA, have a fine time on their tours have no issues with their dress code. If they had anything close to Montana and I had my Maxwell restored I would probably go on the tours and have a good time since I would undoubtedly know some of them; I've probably done a couple hundred carbs for HCCA members and it would be interesting to see the work I've done in action on the cars. But...........if they are going to tell me what I have to wear to drive a car, as the Northwest Speedsters do, or to attend a banquet, like they did in Pasadena, I will not be there. I think anybody that knows me knows that without me having to tell them.
Conventions are interesting. Although I seldom work conventions any more, I have probably entertained at 3 or 4 hundred as the after dinner entertainment over the last 40 or so years. They sometimes ask if I need a list of people to tell jokes on or spotlight during my routines. I tell them no because the same crowd is at every convention no matter whether it is an old car crowd or a bunch of cattlemen or construction workers. As long as they have a cocktail hour I can attend I will have more than enough people to work into the show. Every crowd has the pompous ass who is more important than everybody else there, the local politician, the woman who just assumes she is in charge of everything, the short fat balding guy who thinks he is the lady killer's lady killer, the formerly hot chick who still dresses like she did when she was a 17 year old cheerleader, etc. It takes about 20 minutes to sort them up, find out their names and where they are from, what they drive and how far they live from town. Same crowd every convention. I usually don't pick on drunk women but it is kind of fun to pick on the boozy men with the drunk women. They are always there, every time.
The Titanic movie? Cripes, all of this was 20 years ago....
If I am the boxers-in-a-bind guy, ... so be it.
I came into the old car hobby with a real standout turquoise (white top) 1960 Buick Invicta
convertible at a time when people would spit on finned cars and I was simply told to go away
from car events. I pushed on, expanding the herd into 1959 and 1958. Today, these cars are
some of the most prized (and expensive to buy) GM cars of the period. For the price of a 1958
Limited convertible one could buy DOZENS of finely restored Model T's. But the "all-knowing"
crowd of kiss-the-ring wand wavers only wanted 57 Chevys, Cadillacs, and Corvettes ... the
same boring cars you would see in multiples at every #@! car event !
When I defected to Mopar, fins were still passť, and the "only game in town" was the 300
Club. I had a really sweet 57 NY'er coupe in a dijon mustard yellow with charcoal roof and
sweep. The 300 guys urged me to get a 300 and use the NY'er for parts. When I got my 58
Adventurer convertible (one of 82 built), I was also urged to junk it and use the parts to build
"a nice 300 convertible" !!!
I saw enough of that pompous bullsh!t in my first 15 years in the hobby to gag a maggot, and
my patience wears REAL thin, REAL fast when I see someone playing the holier-than-thou card,
of which the hobby us rife with pompous blowhards who miss the whole point in the joy of old
car ownership - the wrenching and driving. To them, the car is just the key to get a bunch of
axxhats in the door of the "old boys club", and for this .... you bet your axx, I have my undies
in a bunch.
Humanity, if seen as a pie, has a certain number of slices that are made up of "those people".
As Stan pointed out, no matter the venue, a certain number of buttheads are going to show up.
It's just in the mix. Whether it is moochers and freeloaders, or arrogant snobs looking to one-up
anyone they can, there will always be a certain percentage of the crowd made up of them. It's
why I don't do car shows and generally hold the very concept contemptible. It is just a field
forum FOR "those guys" to work their "magic". No thanks. I have better things to do with the
limited time I have left on Earth. (insert puking icon here)
OT, 1958 DeSoto Adventurer Convertible with "Tri Tower" tail lights! Drool....
Walter- maybe more than that. Lindley Bothwell died 30 years ago.
You are correct, Chris. The Google Brain confirms it:
Mark, thank's for posting that pic--Burger you still have it?? Holy Bat-Fins!! (Batman theme plays in background). That thing takes up two T parking spaces! Very cool. When first married, we drove a '60 Olds 98 Sedan, big wrap around back window with a 'visor' roof above it. Would hit 80+ without blinking--fortunately it had a "high speed" warning buzzer you could set for whatever maximum speed you wanted to go, and it would warn me to slow down so I didn't attract Mr. CHP! When premium gas started getting expensive (almost a $1 a gallon!)we changed to a '46 Ch**y coupe, hated to sell the Olds as I knew it would become a collectable, but had no place to store it. . . And now even that '46 is in Italy! Oh the cars we once drove. .
Sorry, thread drift!
BTW, the HCCA chapter up here (Gold Country) was never snobby, just car folks, but it has disbanded.
So the first post was about an auction and the rest is about dress codes..
For what it's worth i wear an old potato sack and you can imagine how people react to that..
As a past National President of the HCCA, let me Chime in here. While costumes were encouraged from many years back no one was ever turned away from a tour or event if they did not "costume".
I personally do not wear costumes anymore and have not for years. It difficult enough getting the cars out and touring let alone trying to keep dirt and grease off the fragile costumes. Let alone considering the age of original fabrics and threads.
The old guard from the HCCA say from the 50's and 60's are no longer active and the newer group of members are not so inclined to "dress up", say for the final banquet where you do see some finery still appearing.
As neither my wife or I costume anymore, we have closets full of incredible period clothing, and have tried to sell it to club members with no takers. There is just not a lot of interest anymore.
So in closing, Stan, I will apologize to you if you were slighted, or made to feel uncomfortable, however, keep in mind there are over 5000 members and it was just a very few misguided soles that made you feel uncomfortable. Those few do not represent the majority of great club members that just want to enjoy their hobby with others, just like the MTFCA members.
p/s thanks for running up the price of the Reo roadster. I have a 1913 barn fresh Reo roadster that you single handedly raised the value of with out me having to lift a finger.
And I ignorantly wonder why I don't dare post any pics of what I did in May to my '24 Roadster....... NOT ignorant, just mindful.
Simple things (creature comforts) but there would be scars forever if I did post... And I push it hard here already. 'Nuff said.
I am glad the sale went well Stan! :-)
Thanks for posting about it!
I'll be waiting for that commission check in the mail!!! =)
I had a couple other guys tell me that, too.
As far as feeling slighted, it wasn't that big a deal, I just wasn't very interested in the awards and all that and wasn't about to wear a Tux.
Being in the auction business makes your skin pretty thick.
Check is in the mail.
In a change of taste, and in the pursuit of parts for the Adventurer, I picked up a Fireflite (available in better
colors and interior fabrics) and sold the Adventurer. Still have the Fireflite, and added a 58 Plymouth to the
heap to bookend the high and low end offerings at your friendly DeSoto-Plymouth dealer in 1958.
Tell them Groucho sent you !
Stan: "But...........if they are going to tell me what I have to wear to drive a car, as the Northwest Speedsters do... "
Maybe ther're telling you what to wear, but they've never told me nor my good friend Jerry, and we've been happy participants in the past five Labour Day Endurance Runs and looking forward to Number Six.
Stan: I know you remember the lyrics: "you can either take me like I am, or I'll go on alone". Regards, TDE
Chris, I haven't been on any of speedster runs for probably at least a dozen years, they are just too far for me to get away long enough to make them and I never had a very spiffy speedster anyway, but when I first started going in the 80's the driver's were supposed to wear white coveralls. We had that pointed out to us a couple times but it wasn't any absolute requirement as far as I know.
We also had it pointed out that my speedster didn't meet their standards, which was undoubtedly true. It was supposed to be lowered, there could be no original body parts used, etc. We missed a lot of the rules when we built it, I would have never guessed some of those guys were as serious as they were about some things. But it was still fun and it was a great bunch of guys for the most part.
We had a lot of fun on the runs we went on. We went to Salem, Oregon, a couple times to Mount Vernon, Washington, one in Hamilton, Montana, one at Olympia, Washington and maybe one other one. I think the most fun we had was the one in Washington where we ended up at some Oyster place eating Oysters about half way through the run, which was pretty boring up until then.
This is my 64 Eldo with my speedster behind it in front of the Many Glacier Hotel. Probably about 15 or more years ago now. Time passes.
Tim: Why must you always try to make me over?
Take me as I am or let me go.
White Lilies never grow on stalks of Clover.
Take me as I am or let me go.
You're trying to reshape me in a mold, love,
In the image of someone you used to know,
But I won't be a stand in for an old love,
Take me as I am or let me go.
Stan - That bit about,...."it was supposed to be lowered...."
That one really surprised me! I don't know much about the various speedster organizations and their specific rules and such, but I'm pretty sure that "back in the day", most speedsters were built by guys that just wanted to race, and a lot of those guys (especially during the depression) couldn't afford much more than a Model T that was basically stripped of everything possible to get rid of as much weight as possible. In fact (and I'm only going by what I've learned from pictures and reading and such over the years) but I think a lot more speedsters were just that,.....stripped down Model T chassis made a light as possible but otherwise, pretty much just like they came out of the factory, except for maybe a bit more compression and carburetor if they could afford it! Again, just sorta' "thinking out loud",.....FWIW,......harold
Stan - I've gone thru' lots of old photos of the speedsters involved in some of the old Northwest Vintage Speedster events and such and I remember seeing photos of that yellow speedster of yours "in action"! By the way, that's one sharp look' n "Caddy" in that last photo. I'll bet you no longer have that one, but I'd also bet that you wish you did, huh? That's when a Cadillac still looked like a Cadillac! (....and besides that,.....I like red!)
I wore it out, Harold. I bought it from the Barrett Jackson auction in Scottsdale when I was a famous cowboy singer and had some money and a good looking girlfriend. We went to Scottsdale and I saw that, she convinced me I needed it "Neither Gene Autry or Bob Wills would drive a Honda," were her exact words.
I bought it, had it for about 8 or 9 years; put one new engine, a rear end, a couple tops and about 50,000 miles on it, a lot of it hauling my equipment trailer behind it. It was probably in a hundred parades, several highway races (see--new engine, above) and was worn out by the time I sold it to a place in LA that rebuilt them and resold them. I had it to several of the speedster runs, took it to the HCCA convention, lots of places, a few car shows, some fund raisers, etc. I got tired of driving it and was getting worried about the reliability of it. So much of what I did then hung on me being there on time and ready to go. You can't be setting along side the road waiting for a ride to the concert when you are the headliner or the auction when you are the auctioneer. (Although I think I only ever drove it to one or two auctions).
I actually don't miss it. I miss her a little but not all that much, either. She did look good in the red Eldo, tho.
Life moves on.
As far as the speedster rules, it has been a long time and I haven't read them for years & knowing me, I probably didn't read them then. But they pointed out a couple times that my "speedster" didn't meet the rules. Jeff -- who is still one of my Model T buddies, didn't feel too welcome at the last one we went on for whatever reason and his life moved on to a new job and the sale of his T's so we never went again. I work so much and am on the road so much it just kind of faded into the background. About the time we were doing this I bought another ranch, traded girlfriends, got involved in some different things. Sold the speedster, sold my 27 Roadster, sold thousands of dollars of T parts, sold my TT's, still have way too much stuff and still think I'm going to build a speedster but probably never will.
This is a difficult and complicated subject. There are several sides to it, and the rules vary a lot from club to club and meet to meet. Many speedster meets do not have any real dress code (although they would probably object if you showed up naked). I have seen Hawaiian shirts and Bermuda shorts on them a few times.
I do not know what the Northwest speedster group's rules are. I would like to attend some of their meets, many of them attend our meets and they are a wonderful bunch of speedster people.
Although I am not officially a spokesman for them, let me try to explain the Santa Clara Valley Model T Ford Club's position.
My first comment would be to state that their rules are more strict than most. Their "Mission Statement" declares that hey are trying to recreate a model T era (1909 to 1927) event. While it cannot be exacting in every detail, they do want to limit the cars and costume of the primary participants to something that at least in photographs would appear era correct. The reason that use of original Ford factory body panels is discouraged, is simply because that during those years ('09 to '27), most speedsters and race cars had the entire body removed and replaced by either something simple, or a full replacement body, like a boat-tail. It was much more common to leave the Ford fenders on the chassis than it was to use a Ford cowl. The idea at that time was to make it look like the race cars one would see photos of. Usually, the builder had few dollars to spend, chassis were often left stock unless the builder had more money than most did (like Harold S says). At least before 1930.
The style of removing the fenders, hopping up the engine, and making a "go-fast T" really began in the '30s. They were the forerunners of hot rods in the '40s and '50s, and are an important part of the model T's history, and our heritage. I do admire them, and enjoy following some of them on this site and other places. But they are not what is wanted in the recreation of a '20s event. There is no intent here to insult anyone, or their car. Unfortunately, insults do occur.
Also, unfortunately, the SCVMTFC has been through this before. A few "go-fast Ts" showed up. The hot rods followed, the "event" got out of hand. The next time, owners of well restored era correct speedsters didn't come. Few other antique automobile people came to the accompanying Lowland Tour", and (take a guess). In a few years, attendance dropped from more than fifty mostly nice speedsters along with about fifty nice non-speedster antiques on the Lowland Tour, dropped down to about twenty cars total. Actually, one year, exactly ONE nice speedster showed up, the other few were barely beaters, and most were not safe to be driven. Only a couple nice other antiques were there. Nearly half the Lowland tour was hot rods.
After that, the Mission Statement came back (it had sort of been forgotten about in favor of being more welcoming to all who were interested).
The coveralls have pretty much become the accepted norm for speedster meets. The rules for the SCVMTFC meet say something to the effect (changes slightly from time to time) that either coveralls (white are preferred, but other colors are sometimes accepted), or other era correct or era appearing attire, be worn during race day. Almost anything goes on tech and other pre-race days.
I have worn a suit and a tie for the Endurance Run. Sometimes breaches and leather puttees (except the past few years because my legs got too fat!), but usually just the coveralls.
I have got to get some larger puttees.
Most of the spectators and Lowland Tour participants just wear modern casual.
It is usually a fantastic event! More hobbyists should try to make it.
And if you think we are tough? Try Civil War reenacting. Some people I used to know got docked points and threatened with disqualification because they were wearing modern underwear. (TRUE!)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I think the objection to the yellow car in the picture was that it had a 26 cowl and radiator shell and a 100 year old leather covered trunk with MONTANA spelled out in little round head nails on the lid instead of a proper tool box and fuel tank. My first speedster was OK by the rules but was slow, slow, slow. We still had a lot of fun with it. I picked some brains at the first run we were on and came home and built this one. Never really thought about not being able to run a 26 cowl. Should have studied the rule book instead of building a go fast engine, I guess.
This one was fast! Had a period correct Matco mag drive with a KW mag, a U & J carb, no magnets and lots of balancing but not as good as they do now. I just did it myself on balance wheels and drilled the flywheel for balance. Had about 8 or 10 pounds off the flywheel and 3:25's in it. It was fast and fun.
Then, as now, I really didn't give a rat's what the rules were and had no basis to stand on when we were told it wasn't a proper speedster and old cowboy hats were not proper attire. Rattler Olson didn't care either and wore his cowboy hat most of the time which just infuriated a couple people.
We had fun when we went, I would have liked to go again but it just never worked out, I sold my car with the idea of building another but that never happened. The engine is still under the bench in the garage and will probably be in my estate auction. I sold my 2 up 2 down crank and cam to a guy that would use them, sold the Ruckstell I had built up for it, sold the wire wheels (not my Pasco's) that I had for the project and moved on. I don't have time to worry about whether I can run Firestone pink plugs or not, what I have to wear and a bunch of other stuff as trivial.
By the way, I disagree that the go-fast engines didn't come along until the 30's. Who bought all those overheads that are still around and the thousands that have gone to scrap if it wasn't guys wanting to go fast in the 20's? Must have been old ladies late for church?
"they agreed I could go to the banquet without a tux, but they didn't like it."
Your words Stan, not mine.
I was referring to the high and mighty with their nose out of joint because you weren't wearing a tux! I don't like snobs.
Could I have possibly more misunderstood?
If you choose to not participate on the forum or in the hobby, that's your choice, but don't dump that load of crap on me.
Stan, I did not mean to imply that speed equipment for Ts was not made in the '20s. Most of it definitely was. However, for every speedster that had a Rajo or Frontenac, there were probably ten with almost purely stock motors. Even most of the U&J or Stromberg carburetors were originally used on stock-bodied cars and trucks to "improve speed, economy, or performance" (whether it really worked or not). Same thing with distributors, external magnetos and the like. About half of the external magnetos and high compression heads were originally put on T engines adapted to farm machinery. They wanted the T familiarity and repair/parts advantages, but needed just a bit more oomph to run the combine. A bit of a joke is how some speedster folks cannot swallow the fact that they are running hay-baler motors in their purty speedster.
Most OHV heads for model Ts were and still are the touring or commercial models. Most of them were first used again on stock bodied cars and trucks. Many original ads for Frontenac heads are targeted to TT owners. Most speedster builders in the '20s were high school or college kids that didn't have enough money for such fancy things. Yes, there were many incredible speedsters and race cars that were built in those days. Most of us speedster guys are very familiar with a number of original era photos that we aspire to. But of the many thousands of speedsters built in those days, not even nearly one in ten was such a car.
Then, in the '30s, when the "Go-fast" T bucket type cars were being built? That original speed equipment was old stuff, readily available in junk stores and wrecking yards, high school and college kids with well-off family, or just a decent after school job, could afford it. These sort of put-togethers were popular with many people until early flat-head Ford V8s started becoming cheaply available after WWII. Then came the next era of common hot rods.
Drifting, drifting, drifting. Why not. (actually, I would like to hear more about the '15/'16 REO)
On a related side-note, the history of hot rods.
Fancy artwork, flames, dragon heads, and the like, was done very early on a very few racing cars. One of the several Peerless Green Dragons I think was one.
About fifteen years ago, I was trying to sort out some history on what was or was not commonly done when. While the term "Hotrod" (or hot rod or hot-rod) is generally considered to be a post-WWII term, there were meets and competitions held during the 1930s. Just like "speedster" has become the commonly recognized word today for '10s/'20s era cars of a certain type, the fact is the word was not universal in the '20s. Such cars went my many names including bug, torpedo, cut-down, and even doodle bug. Before they were even being called "Hotrods", there were hotrod meets.
According to some hotrod historians, the first car to have flames painted on it in the type and style that did not become popular until well after WWII, was a car at a Lakester meet in 1936. A few other cars followed suit in the late '30s. But the practice did not become common until after WWII, and much of the influence is attributed to pilots and flying squadrons decorating their planes during the war.
History. So much to learn about it.
And Stan, I would like welcome you to any meet I was at in whatever attire you consider appropriate. And most all the other regular posters here as well.
The crazy guy that likes his "Not-a-Mercury" boat-tail with the mostly stock engine.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Not going to comment on anything here except to keep the history records straight. The real reason that the SCVMTFC rules state that no stock body parts were to be allowed on speedsters was that we didn't want anyone to tear up a stock body in order to build a speedster.
Ed aka #4
I had forgotten about that! It was just before my time, but I was told about a couple people taking good restorable model Ts and trashing the bodies to build a speedster (in at least one case, a car nearly half restored ). The club as a whole decided that they needed to discourage that idea.
Thank you Ed A for clarifying that. I always look forward to any comment you add on this forum!
Drive carefully and enjoy! (This coming week, and always) W2