If you had to rebuild your engine, what would you put in it?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: If you had to rebuild your engine, what would you put in it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 07:47 pm:

if you had to rebuild engine, what would you put in it?

Rather than buy an expensive 1912 block again, I decided to put in a relatively stronger engine. I already converted the broke engine to a starter, so I might as well pick up a 1919 or later.

What are some suggestions to tell the rebuilder?

I am thinking maybe a z-head and New Zealand crank.

Any other suggestions for strength and power?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 07:59 pm:

Z head & SCAT crank for starters !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 08:00 pm:

Counterbalanced stroker Scat crank with "A" rods. Balanced rotating assembly. Fordson stainless valves. Stipe camshaft. Winfield or Master intake and carburetor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

A straght engine pan and balance whatever crankshaft you use with the balanced flywheel?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Pretty much what I had put into the one I had rebuilt a couple years ago: bronze timing gear, SCAT counterbalanced crank, aluminum pistons, 280 Stipe camshaft, new valves and valve guides, and a Prus head. It performs to my expectations and then some.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 08:24 pm:

Very least a scat crank and balance everything. Straight pan is a must and can't go wrong with new stipe cam. Alot of the nz cranks broke, go with scat. I am pretty sure no one has broken a scat crank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Spencer Vibert - Granby ,CT on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 08:31 pm:

Scat crank bronze timing gears ford n more C race cam domed pistons high volume intake outside oil line and everything balanced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 09:06 pm:

Robert;

There are 2 important questions you need to answer before you can really decide what work to do.

What do you want out of this engine, meaning regular dependable touring, or maximum power and speed?

How much are you willing to spend?

There are a lot of us that are not in the 'bottomless bank account' position and have to make choices on where to spend our $$ when doing a rebuild.

The minimum I'd do is a magnafluxed 26/27 crankshaft, aluminum pistons, Chaffins or Ford n More touring cam, adjustable lifters and an aluminum timing gear. Have the flywheel balanced with the triple gears and the rods balanced with the pistons. To increase the compression I would use domed pistons since you're doing the rebuild already; or if you want to run a high compression head instead then use regular pistons (the domed pistons are great, and a lot less expensive then the high compression head if you've already got the engine apart). Figure you're in it for around $3k at this point.

You can run an outside oil line for about $25 or add the auxiliary internal oilers for about $90. I prefer the internal because it's a pain in the a$$ getting the timer rod bent correctly around the external line sometimes, and it just looks cleaner.

For about $800-900 more you can add the Scat crank; it's money well spent. If it's in your budget, do it.

Oversize intake valves are well worth the cost. There are a number of options that do not require a modified head gasket and use modern style valve keepers. Since you're already spending money on valves now is the time to do it, and it's maybe $150-200 more.

The new Stipe or Chaffin's 280 cams are the next place I'd spend extra money; figure about $200 more than a reground cam.

If you are running a generator or overhead, or just don't mind spending the extra $$ go with the DMC bronze timing gear. I've run both aluminum and bronze and never had a problem with either.

Absolutely make sure your pan is straight!

A good carburetor is important. I run Stromberg OF's and love them.

Make sure you check all of your transmission drums for cracks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 09:10 pm:

for ordinary service I use a "low mileage " T crank (one that cleans up at .010-.015). A balanced flywheel. Balanced rods with new bolts. A STRAIGHT pan. A "floating" transmission shaft


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 09:21 pm:

It surprises me a bit that no one seems to want to drive a model T. Every single suggestion on this thread is to "hot-rod" the motor. Your definition of "hot-rod" may be different from mine, but in my opinion when you veer off from original, you are hot-rodding. Of course it is a matter of degree. Certain things like cast-iron pistons are impractical for various reasons, but for me, there is something satisfying about driving a T that has been built really close to original specifications.

So, to answer you question, I would build an engine with aluminum pistons, bored to the minimum to clean it up. I would regrind the cam. I would magnaflux the crankshaft. If it were bad, I would consider a Scat crank. I would mill the block to clean it up. I would mill the head a reasonable amount. Less than .100" I would have someone with a proven track record babbitt the rods and mains. I would use stainless valves for longevity. I would use a good timing gear and new crank gear. I would replace the transmission drums with ductile iron, especially on the reverse - for longevity. I would balance the heck out of everything and have the pan straightened on a KRW pan jig. When you are done, if you have done it right and have tuned it all up properly, you will have a T that will go 50 mph all day long. It will slow a bit into the wind and on hills, but that is how a T is supposed to operate in my book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 10:49 pm:

Tom
I don't think that you and I are too far apart!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 10:56 pm:

Being cheap, when I build a "hot rod" T engine I use a pressure oiled (drilled) A crank. Possibly with bolted on counter weights if I plan to rev up to 4000 rpm. All work I can do myself. I really like a radical cam with 4 intake ports on a flathead. Makes a clean easy to operate and own engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Monday, June 13, 2016 - 11:33 pm:

Les, define radical, please. Dave in Bellingham,WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:03 am:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Do what suits you. End of conversation!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:31 am:

David
A cam that requires divided intake ports to work at less than 2000 rpm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:39 am:

Small Block Chevy ??? Hehehehe !

(putting on asbestos fire suit now) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 02:12 am:

Let's see.....

He asked for our opinion.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

That somehow ends the conversation?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 10:33 am:

Good advice! Thank you. Like I said before, "it's the car the forum built." :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 10:54 am:

Robert;

In planning the rebuild, I have decided on a standard Scat crankshaft; ouch!$!$!$ But, I want to not have to worry about my crank breaking.

The Scat, aluminum pistons, and stainless valve seats, I believe, are the only non-Model T era upgrades; perhaps the Kevlar bands as well.

I'm a 25 - 30 mph driver; the exhaust noise of an essentially stock Model T is the closest thing to a bona-fide time machine I've experienced.

Enjoy rebuilding yours.

Bill Everett


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 11:06 am:

Every single suggestion is how to hot rod the model T??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 11:39 am:

Which pan do you have? Does the edge have a lip or is it the flat early type. If it's the flat type I would consider getting one of the later narrow nose pans with the lip. Ford added the lip to help strengthen the pan.
Me; touring cam, aluminum pistons, light rods, high compression head or domed pistons, 26/27 crank. Then balance things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:02 pm:

Except yours Bud. :-) A little hyperbole on my part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:06 pm:

Mark reminded me, I would add the accessory pan reinforcement plates. The Scat crank does empty the pocket-book, but for a block you want to keep (early, original number, late, etc. etc.) it seems like a cheap insurance policy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 12:24 pm:

I just did this for my '25 Touring, and for my use I went with a Bill Dubats crankshaft (better than SCAT, but no-longer available), full dynamic balance, Stipe 290 cam, and Z head. I haven't decided on a carburetor yet (have several to choose from)

This is intended to be my durable long-distance tour car, with longevity being the most important, but also with mild improvements to aid in hill climbing and to increase the comfortable cruising speed just enough to make the car more usable on the roads I typically drive on.

I have another T that will stay much more "stock", but if I happen to break a crankshaft, with that one it'll happen 20 miles from home, NOT after spending $800 in gas to haul it 1000+ miles to a tour 7 states away on what's intended to be an enjoyable vacation with my family.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 - 01:55 pm:

I could be wrong but probably pistons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 - 10:32 am:

I decided to pull the engine and drive it 5.5 hours to Ohio and let Kevin Prus check it out and rebuild it. I am leaning towards using a newer engine since mine already has a starter.

You all had awesome suggestions. As Gary London said, ask myself (we should all ask ourselves) what will we use the engine for?

The answer will dictate the rebuild.


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