So I go to a local car show and mention to a T guy that I'm putting the rear end back together on my '15 touring and went with the 3 to 1 ring and pinion set up. I then get chastised for doing that with "why did you do that", "you need to have a strong engine to do that" "you won't be able to drive with other Fords" Jeez, From what I have read here and other places, I thought I was upgrading
I really don't feel like tearing it apart for a third time.
You don't say where you live. If you're in flat country, your engine will have no trouble with taller gears. If you live in hills, unless you have an auxiliary transmission, you may be spending more time than you'd like standing on the low pedal.
I think every time the 3:1 setup is mentioned here there's a caution to only use it with a very light car in flat country if you haven't got a strong engine with a good cam and a high compression head. If it's a Ruckstell axle you're putting it in, you'll probably do fine with one or two people in the touring, then you can always use the ruckstell intermediate gear when approaching a hill or a strong head wind - but you may have a hard time with four adults in a hilly area or if you drive on a Model T tour with all cars in a line - you may want to drive faster or slower than the others most of the time.
I have a very light homemade pickup with a strong engine, and I rarely load it with more than two adults - and there are no other T's around here to tour with, so I'm happy with my 3:1 ratio even without any accessory transmission
Don't worry what anyone else thinks, especially a stranger.
It's none of his F'in business what you do with your property.
"Don't worry what anyone else thinks, especially a stranger.
It's none of his F'in business what you do with your property."
I'd consider what others think, even strangers. It is none of their F'in business, but they could be genuinely trying to help you.
It's all in the tone - you shouldn't feel chastised by some "know it all" at a car show - or here at the forum, though it's hard to decipher the correct tone from a online forum message, so it's always good to have a thick skin when entering online discussions ;)
Anyway, you'll get a good experience yourself by trying out the new gears - and what you felt like chastising may actually have been intended as good advice (but poorly delivered) from someone who tried it out before - or learned from someone who tried it out.
Most modifications on a Model T calls for other modifications. With a balanced mix of modifications you may get a car that serves your use well - or you can just make it stock and use it as they did back in 1915 - if you find any roads where the other traffic allows such use..
Any way you do, do it as it pleases you, not someone else at a show or on the net..
It looks to me that there could be a 3.5 gear or a 3.75 gear made so folks could get a extra mph or 2 and not loose to much up hill strength.
If you want 3-1's put them in. Go for it. I just removed them from my '13 roadster, and it took all afternoon, but we won't get into that. Oh, and the former owner used lock washers to secure the drive shaft pinion bearing housing! How brilliant is that! Next, the latest car I bought has them too, so that's another set of gears I have to remove. Oh well.
One of my cars has a 3-1 in it. It came that way when I bought it. It runs very quietly and smoothly downhill or on level. Thankfully I have Ruckstell in it because starting out on even the slightest upgrade is very hard on the low band. It almost kills the engine to start out in low on a very slight hill. I must go to Ruckstell when I start out on a very small hill.
I can pull a 6% grade without any problem if I am in Ford high before I come to the grade. I must keep it about 30 mph on that grade or I will need Ruckstell. When on tours most of the other cars go about 25 up that same grade and I must use Ruckstell.
This car is a light weight 22 roadster. I don't think it would work even that well if it were a heavier body.
The fastest and best hill climber I have is a 26 roadster with stock engine and stock gear ratio. It also has Ruckstell but can go up many hills in Ford high. With this 26 I was able to drive from Kanab all the way to Bryce canyon in Ford high.
I have them in my 27, my car is very strong and will easily bust 55 MPH. When the day comes that the rear end comes out, so do the gears. On flat land they are great, hills not so much. The Ruxtell helps a great deal. If your car doesn't have a Ruxtell or aux transmission, I don't think you'll like them.
If its just a standard Ford rearend, I would try to pick up another and build it up with 3:63-1 gears. Then either save the 3-1 for a future speedster project or sell it to someone.
"So I go to a local car show .... "
This problem is too obvious.
My experience is like Norm's, I have to pull hills at 30+ or go to low Ruxtell.
If you let the RPM fall off too much when in low Ruxtell, you get to shift it back into high and stand on the pedal.
South west Michigan so it's relatively flat around here.
So it sounds like give it a try, don't like it change them back. That'll work. I'm getting good at tearing it apart
I grew up in Berrien County (close to Benton Harbor / St. Joe), not far from where you're at. Without a Ruxtell, I think you'll be dissapointed. One thing nobody has mentioned is stock braking effort is really hurt by 3:1. If you have aux brakes it won't matter.
Most people I know that have put 3-1 in a stock bodied car have regretted it (including myself). Perhaps the car show "expert" was just trying to be helpful!!
Putting AC brakes on as part of the project
I have a 1926 fordor sedan with 3-1 in ruxtell, engine's strong with high comp head, balanced right through with balanced crank. I thought it might be to much with the hills here in new Zealand, but its been good with the heavy body, even with passengers. The t will sit at 55mph on the flat if i let it, with low rpm, but climb most hills around the 30 to 35mph in high ruxtell. Big hills it sits at 25 to 30 in low ruxtell. With our long windy steep hills obviously having to get into low low, but still good climbing. I've done a lot of motoring all over the country with no problems, the good thing being, it cruises nicely at 40 to 50mph with low rpm, which means you can talk to each other comfortably . Maybe a bit much for standard diff, but haven't tried it myself. I have a 1922 tourer with 11 tooth to 40 crown wheel in standard diff, and find its good open road at 45, and climbs anything in top. All the best with your trials.
Chris, down under NZ
John - Not a lot of "mountain roads" in Michigan, right? And it's not a heavy sedan! Stick to your plan and the worst that can happen is you might have a valid excuse to go to parts swaps to look for a Ruckstell, or Warford, and maybe "poop-up" the engine with a Z head and/or different carburetor. And the very good point Gary brought up you're already addressing with the AC brakes! And building up a second rear end like somebody else mentioned would be good too! Then, the next time you see that guy at the car show, you can tell him that your working on a "quick-change" rear end for the car! That oughta' get a "rise" out of him, right? FWIW,.....harold
Lots of car show people are know it all's. I hear them all the time saying their stock ls chevys with a cam and cold air intakes runs 10s in the quarter mile, but most finally get to the drag strip and I see them run 13s. I like shows myself and attend but their are a lot of bench racers out there!! To be fair their are some extremely fast LS motored cars out their but those aren't the guys talking trash at the crusin... It's your car give it a try. Tim
Well, ya wanna know what I think? Huh, we'll do ya? Well? Yeah that's right! I think, ah, uhm, what was the question?
Everyone and everyone's car is different. Thank goodness for that! Try the 3:1 gears. You may like it, while other people in the same car may not. Like others mentioned, the part of the country and the type of car, plus the strength of the engine all matter, too.
I have 3:1 gears and a Ruckstell in my 1910 Touring. In Kansas, it is great, I can go a little faster, if desired, or I can go stock T speeds and let my original 1910 engine work a little less. I put the car on the dyno while on the tour in Branson last summer. I believe it topped out at a whopping 12.5 hp. So, I'd say a very strong (or more than stock) engine isn't a necessity. My touring is relatively light, and the 4 people in the car usually include my 2 young daughters, rather than 4 grown adults.
We have also toured some hills in Colorado, Vermont, Massachusetts, Missouri, Pennsylvania, etc, and flew up most of them!
Tim summed it up nicely:
"Lots of car show people are know it all's. I hear them all the time saying their stock
ls chevys with a cam and cold air intakes runs 10s in the quarter mile, but most finally
get to the drag strip and I see them run 13s. I like shows myself and attend but their
are a lot of bench racers out there!! To be fair their are some extremely fast LS motored
cars out their but those aren't the guys talking trash at the crusin... It's your car give
it a try."
Back when I was in high school and college, there were those parties where only guys
showed up. This sucked, and my friends and I appropriately made up the term "Dudefest"
to reflect it.
I did cars shows for 20 years, never really thinking of the car scene any other way. That
is just what you do when you own an old car. But something clicked for me. Kinda like
eating a sh!t sandwich, and then making the connection that every bite puts that taste in
your mouth, car shows are rife with axxhats and blowhards and I found myself rather
disappointed (to downright disgusted) with myself for wasting yet another weekend
subjecting myself to that boloney-fest. As a swap for MY time and money, what was I
getting out of it besides brilliant examples of insecure nerds, masquerading as car guys ?
I gave it up and took my car interest down another path ... just wrench and drive 'em
and quit deluding myself that car shows are "fun" and that those dim bulb spewforths
with all the "facts" were worthy of my time to be wasting my weekends around.
Plastic trophies and ribbons sure do make nice, cheesy clutter in a person's house, but
they also call out far and wide to any critical mind that the bearer of such prizes accepts
and acknowledges the know-it-all scene as the valid speaking voice of the hobby.
No thanks, I'll eat mine here.
OK, OK, I live in flat land near Houston. On a 1913 Touring Car I restored I used 3 to 1 gears with a Ruckstell. I found this to be a very good combination. On hills just go to Low Ruckstell. On flat land Ruckstell High and enjoy the extra speed.
Stopping is a consideration with 3 to 1 gears. To increase stopping performance I put lined brake shoes on the rear wheels and never had a problem stopping.
You have the 3:1 gears installed. Drive it and make your own determination as to their performance. The gears are installed, they likely will work just fine for you. If they don't you can change them out but if you do don't tell anyone.
I couldn't have put it better. I completely agree
I'll give them a try....
I think the comment that you need a strong engine to use 3:1 gearing is quite valid. Even with a Ruckstell I was not happy with the 3;1 gears and stock engine in a touring with only myself in the car. Braking is also an issue if you don't have Rockies or something similar.
My T's go plenty fast with the stock gearing. Not sure what the attraction of the 3.00 ratio is - I tried it and didn't like it.
U probably already know your '27 has 3 and 1 .gears
Yes. It will run like a scalded dog as I indexed the timing gear by 1/2 a tooth and changed the head. Living in TN if I can hit the hills doing 30+ it goes up pretty good but if I get behind a t with standard gears doing 22 mph I have to go to Ruxtell. Touring with a group as you know, you're limited by the guys hill climbing ability in front of you. Even in Ruxtell I like to take a hill at about 26-28. If the RPM drops below what a standard T would do, you may have to go back into high on the rear end and step on the pedal. Those gears are "ok" for a Ruxtell equipped car but if all I had was a stock rear end, it would be stock geared.
I have a standard rear end and am installing AC brakes....I guess we'll see
I don't much care what others feel about what I do and do not do with MY car. On that rare occasion that I do respond to someone's criticism about MY car it's normally followed with either, I'm confused, When did it become your car or just if you don't like it don't look at it. This year I have noticed that I have become increasingly mean and have seemed to have misplaced my verbal filters so it there criticism may be returned a with much more colorful response.
One thing I hate is people who use the term low Ruckstell! To me, low Ruckstell is the transmission is in low, and the Ruckstell is engaged. You are either in Ruckstell or you are not!
Good for you, Will.
Constructive criticism, I encourage. Know-it-all blowhards get both barrels.
I relish the opportunity to unleash "the Gunny".
Ted said it right. Drive it and make your own decision. Most people know me now as a speedster guy, but I love stock model Ts. My ice cream truck (car chassis) weighed in at 2,100 pounds, engine dead stock, orig. roller style timer, with the only non stock stuff being aluminum pistons and no 2 piece valves. Ruckstell with 3 to 1 gears and I loved it. Drove it from Hayward a few times to Los Angeles (a couple of those times with our 3 daughters riding in the back), Catalina Island, Yosemite National Park, San Diego, loved every minute of it. Of course I had to downshift before everyone else on a hill, but it's well worth it for the enjoyment I get on flat land, not overworking the engine. So....it depends on the individual. Without the Ruckstell I would not like the braking ability.
Ed aka #4
Another good reason why I stay away from car shows!
Too many guys go to car shows and tell you things about your car that only they know.
I put a 3 to 1 gear set in my 1926 roadster and she does well in this part of Ohio where hills are not common. the steepest one around here will slow her down to 30 mph. She does not like getting off from the stop sign so well, but who wants to drive in the city anyhow. My engine does run well and the car weighs 1750 lbs. until I get in.
The car went 50 mph. on a flat road, given time, with her standard rear end, but after I put in the 3 to 1 under the same circumstances she would go........50 mph. Twenty horse power only gives so much it appears. But the ratio does make the engine turn slower and hopefully wear less.
Thanks Daniel. I finally have the rear end back together, AC brakes installed. Now just have to adjust everything so the AC's engage before the trans brake, etc
Hey John, It's your car - do what you want with it.
Probably be proved wrong.....but we'll see
You were a Gunnery Sergeant Burger?
Took the '15 touring out for the first time with the 3 to 1's yesterday.
It takes a lot more low band. Original ring and pinion I would just get her rolling and go to high. With the 3 to 1's it felt the best going from low to high at about 15mph.
In high it seemed to feel the best at about 35mph and would run there all day at significantly less rpm. Relatively flat around here so no hills requiring downshift, however low speed curves may need some low pedal, again about the 15mph threshold. ....I'll keep playing with it, it's like re-learning to drive my T