At my request, the thread “OT A moment of silence and prayer” will be removed from the Forum.
I appreciate everyone’s rights and opinions, however, the MTFCA Forum is not intended to be used as a political outlet. The original poster had a respectful comment to make and it’s disappointing that the discussion went the direction that it did.
I understand that people can choose to read or not read OT threads. However, the sentiments in this thread are not what the MTFCA is about, no matter what an individual’s stance on a topic.
Thank you for remaining respectful of your hobby and each other.
Executive Director, MTFCA
Thank you, Susan.
I agree, you made the correct decision.
The first site I check in the morning and the last at night is MTFCA---with mutual interest in Model Ts by those that post on this thread allowed me to vent some anger and learn from other T owners what there thoughts were.
I don't agree, but do understand why, Funny! this site is my social media site. Guess I am hooked.
Removed.. "A moment of silence and prayer" sad day!
I must admit overall I agree this is a Ford Model T site.
You're a new poster and welcome to start your own thread.
Tell us about your '23 Model T. Any photos?
Susan, It is a tough one. You have an important and much appreciated position in the club. However, it is also one where you cannot please everybody all the time.
I am sure that I can run close to the bad line on this forum from time to time. I did tell Chris B last year that I would try to not to get too close much this year.
Unfortunately, OT political is not always Off Topic. Our beloved model Ts are at the mercy of and subject to the whims of politics in this country. Their very survival is dependent upon the survival of the way of life we have been fortunate to have for over a hundred years. But that way of life is at greater risk today than it has been in for more than two hundred years! The world situation coupled with corruption in our politics poses a much greater threat to us today than the Civil War did over 150 years ago.
That said. Just so that you and others know where I am coming from. The thread in question did start out with a good and very important (and timely) sentiment. It should have stayed there. Instead, it took a bad turn. To be clear, I have not looked into that thread since its second day. So I don't even know now who all I may offend by saying anything. I do not know how far off it went.
I do think that you made the right call to delete the thread, based on what I did see a couple days ago. The timeliness of the original sentiment is behind us. The aftermath will continue for years. But this is not really the place for it.
A difficult call on your part. Thank you for what you do, for all of us.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Susan: Thank you. That thread should never have been started on the forum.
"That thread should never have been started on the forum."
A moment of silence and prayer for fellow human beings killed and suffering is wrong?
At sundown tonite you can raise your flags to their normal height.
Think of those that lost their lives as you do this.
I have been a member of this forum for many, many years. Yes, This is a site dedicated to the Ford Model T. Once in awhile though guys really need a good sounding board. I saw a lot of venting in that thread. I have a feeling it did a lot of good for some of the folks that viewed their thoughts, Again, There thoughts and feeling on a world in almost complete downfall. With everything going on in this world maybe, Just maybe the powers to be should had let this one alone and allowed them to be heard.
I believe anything not Model T related should be deleted. JMO!
It does not seem to matter what we believe anymore Royce.
If it is not fit to print in the MTFCA magazine it should not be here either!
You can't just shut your eyes to your problems and hope that they'll go away.
As an OT thread, I did not read it, so I have no opinion on the specific thread in question, but if, like many OT opinion posts, it took a disrespectful direction that caused hurt to others, then it should have been removed. Jim Patrick
There was never a shadow of a doubt that a thread on an event like that one, no matter the intention, would degenerate into a pissing match and hurt feelings. Too many hot issues involved. I knew this was coming at first glance at the title of the OT posting, surprised it took this long. Save this stuff for social media sites and stick to model T's, they bring us together.
"I believe anything not Model T related should be deleted. JMO!"
Yes, Royce, I am aware that you feel that way. On the other hand, I have been a member of our local Model T club for a number of years. When we get together, we talk about lots of things. I am trying to imagine the following scene. Club members are together at a meeting, picnic or other event....
"Hey, I see that Meramec Caverns have reopened after they were closed for several months."
"WHAT? That has nothing to do with Model Ts. SHUT UP!"
"Yes, don't talk about that! What the hell are you thinking??"
"You dare to bring up something not related to Model Ts?? Get out of our club!!"
Sorry, purists. Not my cup of tea. If that's where we end up, then have fun....
I wouldn't belong to a club like that, and I wouldn't participate in a forum like that.
Thanks for posting that,I couldn't come up with a way to explain that in the other thread.
I have not been to a tech session with the club I am in for a while now but I do remember there is lively discussion about ALL kinds of things from Eggs Benedict on up.
A club function is the first time I had ever heard of a egg fixed that way and was later on able to get 1 at Bob Evans.
I agree with Dick.........and Mack.
I'm sorry the thread is gone.
Threw my 2 cents in on that one. Suppose it's the Bosses choice to pull it. No qualms here. Just keep in mind one thing: we don't want to degenerate into what the other 2 sites are. Electrical cemeteries. I'd rather see a post like that run, get some hits and be pulled than not having to check, some times for weeks, what's new. I check the Barn and there's almost no action. The MTFCI might as well not be there at all. It's a morgue. Don't want that here. Sometimes I find stuff new here 2 or 3 times daily. This site is alive as can be. Funny, informative, opinionated. Don't change. Delete if you must but please don't change.
Amen. And this and the Stak are my social media.
Here is something for you to chuckle at.
Copied from a thread on Smok stak a while back.
"For those of my generation who do not, and cannot, comprehend why Facebook exists: I am trying to make friends outside of Facebook while applying the same principles.
Therefore, every day I walk down the street and tell passersby what I have eaten, how I feel at the moment, what I have done the night before, what I will do later and with whom.
I give them pictures of my family, my dog, and of me gardening, taking things apart in the garage, watering the lawn, standing in front of landmarks, driving around town, having lunch, and doing what anybody and everybody does every day.
I also listen to their conversations, give them the "thumbs up" and tell them I like them.
And it works just like Facebook.
I already have four people following me: two police officers, a private investigator and a psychiatrist."
Charlie is right about the BARN. Very little discussions (car or OT) there. This was a fun thread - Thanks, Burger!!
LOL Mack Cole...... ........carry on!
Here AND there........
Well it you don't want ANY non Model T post on this forum then you better delete THIS one...It's Non Model T!
This sub-thread is proof that censorship does not work. The original thread was deleted but yet it lives on in this thread.
In a sense it does work quite well in that, aside from this posts title, the original business isn't mentioned at all here but a good number of guys are commenting on THAT fact. Goes to show, as stated, this site is social media for a lot of us. Probably why it's so active.
Dick is right. This forum is no different than a car club meeting or a conversation under the tent at a car show. People say there are other sites for other discussions. Are the same friends on those other sites? What do you do at a car show or club meeting when conversation turns to a subject you are not interested in? It's funny that some don't have a problem with OT posts until there's one they don't agree with, THEN the post needs to be removed because it's OT.
As Ms. Yaeger said, it was not the 'OT' that caused the thread, it was the sentiment.
She was simply doing her job. She phrased her reasoning well and so apparently she does a good job well.
I won't go long here...but can't honestly stay totally silent...
No big deal on that thread...they happen from time to time, they run their course, and then they are forgotten.
There was a time where this site was OK with (and seemed to thrive on) 80% back porch banter and 20% 'how do I...?" while another site tried to be 99% 'How do I' and with great reserved effort allow the other 1%. Yes, this is my view perhaps only, but I lived through it and that is the way I saw it.
There was a vast migration all in a short period of time and this site actually came up with a balance that apparently worked for everyone, and the other one has wheezed on 1 cylinder ever since.
Point to ponder, be careful. Either the Board needs to say firmly...no OT's...and live with any fall-out. Or, let it go unless it is totally obnoxious to the seeming majority...(Hint--like maybe ask first? Hint-maybe post that it will be deleted in 24 hours?) before a delete?
Just a point of view from someone in the usually silent majority...it's sort of like the primaries...take the super-delegates out of the math (and yes we seem to have super delegates here), then only have some 5% of the people actually state their view by putting their name to it, and the right answer just may not naturally float to the top.
My dog died last night so I'm perhaps ornery a bit today but hey..Off to play with my T now...folks doing that universally seem to make everyone's minds clear of any fog or stress whatever the reason
Great point about "closing ones eyes" - a point that has been amply illustrated by towns like Clichy-sous-Bois and Aubervilliers outside Paris or Mohlenbeek outside Brussels. Authorities closed their eyes for YEARS to the dangers that were growing in these places (to the point that law enforcement agencies would not even enter these areas), allowing them to fester and grow until they exploded. Apparently, most people living in/around Paris and Brussels didn't mind the situation that had developed because, even though the reputation of these areas as "NO-GO" places were well-known to the general public, no one ever called authorities to task for it (until AFTER the attacks in their cities). Lot to learn from those mistakes in Paris and Brussels and I think the United States has learned them well - we don't have "NO GO" areas in our cities where our law enforcement agencies are afraid to go and independent, terrorist "city-states" are allowed to openly organize significant numbers, arm and strike us later.
Thanks for pointing that out Creston - well observed!
Susan – thank you for being our Executive Director and making the tough calls when it is necessary.
The country song lyrics drift from the radio "...I love this bar, it’s my kind of place..." and I often think "...I love this car, and this forum is my kind of place..." I enjoy the discussions about the cars, how to repair them, history, etc.
I also enjoy many of the OT postings -- for example recently Rob's posting about his daughter going off to play basketball. Some of my OT posting helped me get through some of the hard times in my life – especially when I lost my Dad and later lost my Mom. It was encouraging to me to know that some of you guys and a few gals out there care about me and not just about my car.
George – I’m sorry to hear about the death of your dog. We can really get attached them over time. I know our dog was special to our family and we still talk about Kirby.
I don’t always succeed, but I try to follow the advice given at the top of the forum when I first open it: “Post for the good of the hobby.”
Hap l915 cut off
I hope George was using his dog loss was part of his point--- not the truth.
If I lost the young white girl who insists on sleeping beside me even my T interest would be far in second place.
I agree with the removal.
Even though the original thread content was non "T" it was appropriate to the event referenced, what followed, not so much!
This forum is successful because it's kind of like Shorpy -- "Always Something Interesting".
Susan, The call was yours to make, but remember that Henry Ford was involved in many social issues of his day.
"Ford’s political views earned him widespread criticism over the years, beginning with his campaign against U.S. involvement in World War I. He made a failed bid for a U.S. Senate seat in 1918, narrowly losing in a campaign marked by personal attacks from his opponent. In the Dearborn Independent, a local newspaper he bought in 1918, Ford published a number of anti-Semitic writings that were collected and published as a four volume set called The International Jew. Though he later renounced the writings and sold the paper, he expressed admiration for Adolf Hitler and Germany, and in 1938 accepted the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the Nazi regime’s highest medal for a foreigner."
So with 54 total posts to the Forum to your name you decide to make a political statement about the thread your having removed instead of just deleting it with no drama. Nothing like a little hypocrisy!
Quote Henry Ford :
"My sincere hope that now in this country and throughout the world when the war is finished, hatred of the Jews and hatred against any other racial or religious groups shall cease for all time."
To me this forum has been like a big family "dinner table". Over the years we've seen many model T issues resolved, insight into the design, new information disclosed for particular year models etc. But more significantly, we have learned a great deal about the lives of our fellow Model T friends.
It seems ironic that Royce would would take such a hard line at this point. If this forum had taken his line in the past, would we have known and felt the respect and love he had for his late father? Would we have cried real tears for the heroic battle fought and lost by our friend RDR? Would we have cried real tears for our friend Will, or Jay, or the many others whose life challenges and tragedies were shared and truly felt here?
This forum is a very special place to me, and I know many others feel the same way. Other model T sites have withered or become dry and lifeless, as this one has grown and become legendary.
We come here to discuss our common interest: The Model T Ford, but in the process we also share another common interest, the daily lives of our friends, their needs, and opinions.
Like any family, we have our disagreements and sometimes passions run high. But again like any family we work through it.
My final thought is, let's be careful not to ruin a good thing. Just my opinion.
It is possible on occasion to learn from a person with a opposing view if it is logical and well explained.
I think this forum is great,I was a member of the MTFCA and may rejoin at some point in the future.But a couple issues,probably very minor in most eyes, caused me to speak with my wallet instead of my mouth for a change.
1 of the motivators for me to consider rejoining is the diversity of knowledge shared thru it's forum and local clubs. If this is altered in some way where-as everything is hardline, straight by the book,God forbid getting out of line,off topic, then I would be alot less apt to pay membership and financially support the national club.
Those other bunches didn't wither on the vine for no reason.
Very well said, John and Mack.
Jay, Susan is pretty much doing what she is paid to do. There are a lot of people in government who should give that a try!
Amen to that Dick! Amen.
The forum should be a place where our passion for the T is not marred by threads that go South to the point of needing to be removed. Its for the good of the forum and especially the newbie who's just come aboard and is seeking our advice.
Actually, I think not talking about politics is a big contributing factor to how we got where we are today. No one seems happy with it. Unless there's a billionaire posting here, we probably have a lot more in common than we suspect.
When I joined this forum I found it refreshing to see the level of self-effacing humor being tossed
around about owning a 20hp car. I am SO weary of the hobby that is so oriented towards performance
and cliché, ..... drive-ins, carhops, and all that kitschy, overdone stuff of teenage angst and American
In the past year, I see less and less of that "fun" and more and more focus on either the technical Q&A
or more serious OT posts that may be legit, but overall, I see the humor is gone.
Life is a mixed bag and gets boring if you only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every meal, every
day. Humor is a big help in easing the gradual creep of being too serious.
Lighten up, guys. People die and bad #@! happens. Always has, always will. We're all a bunch of fruits, ...
let's focus on gratitude and humor.
thank you susan for doing your job, although a tough choice, you made the decision and that's all that matters. people need to know sometimes we need to have people in charge make decisions, and we all may or may not agree, just accept that was the decision. me personally, I don't read ot subject very often. that's just me. so I don't know what was said on the subject. I have enough to deal with in my own life , not to be cold, but this news had my mother and father so upset , they cried for days , couldn't eat etc. we finally had to quit watching that part of the news. they are very old and this is terribly disturbing to them and everyone. they are just a lot more emotional then most folks. its an age thing.so, I choose not to look at things that get me upset, yes I have prayed and felt the sorrow of this country, that we love with all our heart but my biggest job is to make my parents life happy and comfortable, they have been through 88 years of life and want to send the rest of them not terrified of what might be in store for their 16 grandchildren or their 10 great grandchildren. we thrive and live for their happiness and keep in touch with them on a daily basis. sorry to be like this, but that's my feelings. susan, please continue to show the energetic leadership and positive image that the MTFCA is and has!
You know a lot of people want to talk about LGBT people. I am not racist, not prejudiced in any way. In fact I consider myself WC and on a bad day WFC. The WC is Who Cares what you are. We are all just people. I'll let the rest of you figure out the WFC.
Saw this and just had to add it!
Will - What a great post! If we were all just little tykes like that sweet little girl, we COULD "all just get along". However, those sweet little innocent little ones LEARN FROM OUR EXAMPLE! And what kind of examples do we provide for them???
(......something to think about, huh ? )
Burger, I agree about "self effacing." When people talk to me about old car snobs, I always say that it's really hard to be pretentious when you drive a Model T.
Dick's posting reminded me of the story of Henry Ford stopping to help a guy beside the road in a model T. Henry was able to get it running in short order, and the guy tried to give him a dollar for his trouble. Henry said something like, "Keep your dollar, I have enough money!" And he responded, "Sir, you are a liar; if you had that much money, you wouldn't be driving a Ford!"
"Old car snobs"?
Hey! I resemble that remark!
For Burger: A horse walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Hey buddy, why the long face?"
Three men walked into a bar.
The fourth one ducked.
Hey Wayne! Tell me this is NOT a social media site when you are posting at 3 in the morning?
The owner of a small company is trying to figure out the discount on an invoice he has to pay. He says to his secretary, "You went to college. If I paid you $20,000 less 14%, how much would you take off?" "Everything but my earrings," she answered.
I think we are 'doing it again'.
Love this Forum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Will Copeland's post made on June 16 at 5:02 PM and others that say a club is a relation between people with a common interest but it goes far beyond a single interest.
We can focus on our cars, ignore what is happening in the world around us, and loose everything.
Wake up! Model T's ware nothing when compared to freedom and our lives.
Coming soon: Removing Thread "Removing Thread: "OT: A moment of silence and prayer""
Yep,Hal,I am afraid that is showing up in my glass ball to.
See ye at Denton.
dang it,I meant crystal ball! DUH, I can't think straight,it has been a long day hauling stuff for folks that are selling a house.
Classic example of social media in action. I believe this post has now passed the original! The Forum at it's best.
I enjoy my T s and enjoy the forum. I assume this is a outlet ( or social media of a type) for many of the members and know matter our views, the world isn't as Henry Ford left it.. Not talking about the problems of today will not be a cure for society's ills. Nor will discussion stop the preservation, restoration, repair of these great historic vehicles. Tim