The prevalence of Corcoran & Victor model 2 headlights and sidelights

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: The prevalence of Corcoran & Victor model 2 headlights and sidelights
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 05:58 pm:

I was talking with a fellow hobbyist about the abundance of E&J black and brass headlights and side lights compared to Corcoran, Victor 2 & with some regard Jno Browns seen on model Ts. I wonder if there was a preferred company that Ford had or if they just used all 4 to meet the demand. We also discussed the number of Victor carbide generators, which seem more available, but don't generally sell at the same price point of the others if at all. Those things being said on your Black & Brass T's what do you have. Are your headlights the same brand as the side lamp / tail lamp and generator or a combination of different makes. Another request, is your generator the same make as your headlamps? Just curious if there was reason or rationale


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 07:15 pm:

It would be my guess Ford had many people in [purchasing] who put things out for bid depending on price,quality,and ready supply? My 14 has a Cleveland Hardware front axle and the book Tin Lizzie by Stern tell's a story about the New Ford car that never was.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Perkins / Lakeland, Mn on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 07:16 pm:

John, my 1914 T has all Victor lamps and a Victor generator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 09:00 pm:

It depends on model year. In 1914 the Brown and E&J lamps are most common. Corcoran and Victor least common.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 09:30 pm:

John, you know my '14; Corcoran side/tail lamps, Brown headlamps and Corcoran carbide tank. Since the original headlamps/generator were taken off the car very early in it's life and replaced with 1915 electric headlamps, not sure if it had a complete Corcoran set or mixed set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Saturday, June 18, 2016 - 10:06 pm:

The E&J plant at 4421 Humbolt was only 4-1/2 miles from the Mack Avenue plant and 3 miles from the 461 Piquette location. E&J started their Canadian lamp branch in Walkerville in early 1913.



During May 1914, E&J stated they were furnishing 70% of their 5,000 lamp daily production capability, practically 3,500 lamps a day for the Ford Model T. E&J called the 3,500 lamps "for 700 cars" which inferred a 5-lamp set per car. If the claim is anywhere near correct, it would make E&J the most common for that time period.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 12:11 am:

It probably depends what part of the country your car was built in. Around here most everything is Brown.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 12:27 am:

Our 14 has Victor # 2.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 03:11 am:

All three of the 1913 Fords that I have owned had Brown lights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Gagel, Orange,Ct on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 09:34 am:

I have two '14s, 19 days apart in manufacture. The older one has Browns and the newer one wears E and J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 11:00 am:

Thanks for your input up to now,keep it coming. So does anyone know of any all Brass headlamps or side lamps/tail lamps for Victor or Corcoran used on a model T or at all or were these brands just relegated to years 13 & 14. I do have a small type Corcoran headlamp that's all brass with Corcoran (similar to the Brown) stamped into the smoke bonnet but someone decided to put a quarter size hole right in the middle of it. But I've never seen another one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 02:02 pm:

I would still love to find a nice pair of Corcoran head lamps to trade my nice Brown's for; that way I would have a full set of Corcoran's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Perkins / Lakeland, Mn on Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 06:20 pm:

John, I have had three other '14's and one '13 in the past 30 years in addition to the one I listed above, all touring cars:
1) 1914 #477824 Brown lamps, prestolite tank
2) 1914 #421895 Brown lamps, Corcoran generator
3) 1914 #477750 E&J lamps, E&J generator
Note car 1 & car 3 are only 74 production from each.
1913 car had Brown lamps and Corcoran generator.
Hope this helps your survey. Jeff P.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 01:03 am:

Pleas keep them coming. I'm thinking of a potential article about 09-14 lamps and generators. Your contributions will be greatly appreciated if it comes to fruition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 07:41 am:

My June 1914 has E and J (no number) headlamps and Corcoran side and tail lamps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 07:51 am:

A study of the Model T shipping invoices for 1909-1911 seems to indicate that lamps, coils and carburetors ran in batches. For example, in early June 1911 almost every Model T left the factory with a Heinze coil, E&J lights and a Kingston carburetor. In May and again in July 1911 they were using J&B coils.

I suspect that cars were equipped with what ever lights were on hand when a Model T came through.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 09:32 am:

Corcoran lamps are the least common.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 09:35 am:

The Corcoran Lamp Company and Victor Lamp Company were owned by three of the five Corcoran brothers during the "Black & Brass" time of the Model T. The other two Corcoran's owned the Victor Auto Parts Company and all three companies were in Cincinnati. They merged in 1916 and ended up buying the John W. Brown Lamp Company in 1930.

Apparently, in 1912 the three Corcoran's owning the two Cincinnati, Ohio, lamp companies, Victor and Corcoran, decided to pursue some of the "Black & Brass" lamp business from Ford Motor Company.

I do have several all black Cincinnati-Victor gas headlamps that may have been made for the "truck" or equipment trade which could explain why the Victor generators are more common. Seems like those may have been used well into the 1920's.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Gagel, Orange,Ct on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 10:21 am:

I have a set of '14 Victor lights,and the top piece is steel instead of brass. I was told that these were commercial lights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, June 20, 2016 - 01:42 pm:

Charlie,

If they have Ford script on top they are simply later Model T production, likely during Model / Fiscal Year 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 07:42 am:

Charlie,

Please show a picture. I have a friend that has a pair of Victors on a '13 with steel bonnets but I never looked at them very close.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 09:55 am:

I like Kens comment. That explains why the Ford script on Victor #2, and Corcoran side lamps are identical.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 11:02 am:

Ken,
Are you referencing Mike Noe as the owner of the '13 touring with black Victor headlamps? I understood - and forgot where I heard this - that these were Victor #1 headlamps of early '13 and they were paired with unique Victor 1 cowl and tail lamps. Mike has even scratched some of the paint off one of the steel bonnets to preclude the question often asked, "why have you painted the brass bonnet?"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 11:30 am:

George,

Yes, the set Mike Noe has. I can't recall if there was a Ford logo on them.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 11:39 am:

1314V1-1

1314V1-3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

The Victor plant at 1249 Plum (I believe it is 1223 Central Pkwy today) is only about 1.2 miles from Thomas J. Corcoran's Corcoran Lamp Company that was located at 712 Reading Road. Thomas Corcoran worked for the Victor Lamp Company and that is where he learned the lamp business.

Phil has it. The steel bonnet Victor Ford headlight. I don't have a Ford one but typical side vent holes in the bonnet like several other Victors I have.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Gagel, Orange,Ct on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 03:53 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Gagel, Orange,Ct on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 03:56 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 04:00 pm:

Charlie,

Do you have the small Victor tail lamp?

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, June 21, 2016 - 07:53 pm:

Sonny,

Do you have a picture of the Victor #1 side and the small tail light to share?

My email is messing up and I'm not sure I answered your pm.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Gagel, Orange,Ct on Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 04:53 am:

Ken,I have electric lights on the rear.


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