**1919-1927 Starter Bendix Assembly**

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: **1919-1927 Starter Bendix Assembly**
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 02:14 am:

Just to keep thing relevant, I'm posting (again) the Stater Motor along with the Bendix Assembly. These two should really be on the same assembly, but they're just too complicated (part wise) to fit onto one drawing.





Again I think there are no changes between 1919 and 1927, at least there are none that I've been able to find at any rate. So, if you see something that is different than what I have here, please let me know, thanks. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 02:24 am:

LIKE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 06:04 am:

Martin,

It looks good. Look at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/114709.html?1258676921

You might want to add 5021-1/2 (Lang's number) to the illustration to show the repair sleeve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 06:12 am:

On the starter motor, I notice the 5107TS stud is off by itself. Is there any way to relate it to the end of the field coil to which it is silver soldered in actual use? The pin you're showing as 5136 I believe is a starter part and is physically much larger than the pin that goes through the end of the 5107TS stud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 06:13 am:

Correction should have said 5136 is a generator part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:37 am:

Martin

The Bendix exploded view is great.

Only if used for assembly instructions, the placement of the starter shaft key (5020) used to secure the Bendix head (5019), the user may place that key in the shaft prior to install of the starter motor, and find an unpleasant result if the key falls away and into the crankcase. :-(

Maybe re-position that 5020 key beside the 5019 Bendix head showing its position there for assembly? Just a minor suggestion.

Your art is beautiful as always! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 10:14 am:

Martin

One more add :-)

The Parts and Price list books have the 5059 little Bendix Cover Screw under Starter Parts, but omit the mating (5059B) lock washer for those screws.

Have looked in the 1920, 1924 and 1926 Parts and Price lists, but no 5059B Starter Drive Cover Screw Washer (lock washer) until the last version Parts and Price list Aug 5, 1928.

The vendor catalogs leave out the 5059B lock washer too.

But note the 1924 issued Ford Service Book, page 214, gives clear instruction to fit lock washer to the Bendix screw.





Without lock washers under the heads of those Bendix screws, they can back out, and lost of oil will happen if the Bendix Cover gets loose, and engine trouble will happen! Use lock washers there, Ford say so :-)

Would be good for you to add the 5059B at the screw details of your drawing!


Safe this way, small plain washers over the slotted holes in the Bendix Cover, then small lock washer under each screw. The plain washers help grip the split lock washer under the head of the screw. The small plain washer optional, but the use of lock washer is mandatory for the Bendix Cover screws!

(Message edited by dan_Treace on June 23, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 07:45 pm:

Dan, ya know I was wondering about those lock washers, mine of course has them also but I wasn't sure if they were supposed to be there or something my dad added. He added lock washers everywhere to this car and where he couldn't put one he'd use vibration proof nuts. You're right the safest way would be to add plain washers under the lock washers, because the split does sometimes have a tendency to slip between the slots of the can. I think I'll add those too as an option.



Tom, I really couldn't tell whether or not that bloody pin was or was not used in both assemblies, so I gave it that number. So many of the parts used on the Generator are also used on the Starter, that is was a judgement call, as to use it or not.
My post wasn't silver soldered to the coil and was easily able to remove it so as to study this assembly better. The only thing holding it to the coils was that pin and the nuts and fiber washers on the inner side of the housing. I'm sure it's a good idea to have it soldered too, but apparently it isn't necessary for it to work properly.



These drawings are only a parts book depiction of how an assembly goes together. They merely show what the part looks like and where it goes.
Yes, if somebody were to put that woodruff key into the starter shaft and then insert it into the hogshead I can see how that might not be the smartest thing to do, but I am also assuming that people who use these drawings have some basic knowledge of Murphy's Laws too.
I guess I could add a note or something to that drawing, but other than that, without lots of words telling you how to assemble what's in the drawing, I don't think there is any clear way to show what you're asking...but thanks for the input. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

Great drawings. Is the gasket between the front side of the starter and block for sealing only or is it also a shim for depth?? Thanks Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:38 pm:

Tim, I think it is for sealing more than depth...these damn things leak like a sieve if you don't get them slathered with gasket goop and tightened down really good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 11:10 am:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/119678.html

Reference for silver soldering the terminal. Ron mentions they were done this way originally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 06:04 pm:

Tom, maybe most of them were...mine doesn't show any signs of ever having been though. No broken solder joints, or solder splash residue or even some burnt flux residue, nothing.
Of course I don't use it much anyway, because I feel most people don't expect you to hop into a Model T Ford and stomp on a starter...they expect you to full well run round front and crank it (because this is what they've heard is how these cars were started), which I do...might say it's a "Kodak Moment" for them, because of all their cell phones clicking trying to catch that action.
The only time I'll use the starter is if the car stalls in traffic, other than that I always crank it. :-)


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