Cast-Iron Warford disassembly question...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Cast-Iron Warford disassembly question...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:26 am:

I recently acquired this cast-iron Warford over/under transmission (thank you Charley Shaver!), for my '24 Speedster.

The output shaft seems a little wobbly which I expect is bearing trouble. However, I've met considerable resistance in the disassembly and I would like confirmation that my strategy is sound before I break anything besides my vise.



Bell removed exposing the output end with a 1-3/4" hex (fold-up lock tabs folded down). I assume it unscrews clockwise from this perspective:



Big wrench on hex, square end in vise, something's gotta give...



At least it was only the vise and not an original Warford bit:



Plan B is the torch and some heat/cool cycles and try again using a bigger vise.

Before I do that I'd like confirmation that I'm on the right track expecting this thing to come apart in this way ie that this isn't a left-hand thread, or there may be some other procedure that has to be done first, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 10:45 am:

Chris, you are correct. It is a right hand thread. A little heat and some penetrating oil has worked for me.
Rich



(My pieces on shaft may be wrong orientation.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:47 am:

There's nothing better than a good quality vise. (Or a good quality vice for that matter!)

Just a guess, but, given the direction the shaft rotates, it just may be a left hand thread. Give it a bump to the right and see what happens. Just don't go too ape on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:53 am:

Thank you Richard, that is most helpful. I recall now that you have several Warfords you can be sure I will be in touch again before long!

And to clarify, my original post stated "I assume it unscrews clockwise from this perspective", but shoulda said "counter-clockwise".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 06:29 pm:

Also the end in question is the input. But communication involves more than just the exact written word so we knew what you meant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:51 pm:

Yes, that too. Input.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 11:22 am:

All apart now, and there are a couple items of concern.

Particularly, I would like to replace the input shaft, below, in light of the poor condition of the end bearing cup, second photo below. Of course the pictured bearing cone is also poor, but I anticipate no real trouble sourcing a replacement.

I'm posting a classified advert in a few minutes, but wanted to make my needs known here in case someone can help but didn't see the advert.

Thanks.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 - 12:24 pm:

I am running several Warfords and none have new bearings. I feel that it is not critical that they be perfect and that they are very forgiving...just like everything else on a T. Don't worry it all to death. You will never tell the difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 10:00 am:

How we dealt with the bad bearing cup pictures immediately above may be of interest...

John McGinnis' comment to not over-worry it was echoed by several others, one point being that this bearing is only rotating during under- and overdrive. My go-to bearing guy and Timken themselves were unable to cross-reference the part number on the corresponding cone/roller assembly, so finding a replacement cup looked very unlikely.

The cone and rollers were surprisingly good and turned without noticeable roughness, but the grooves in the cup, above, were deep enough to feel like detents. I just couldn't leave it as is.

We assumed the cup was through-hardened and decided to grind out the grooves as best as possible. I'm about 75% pleased with the result not perfect but a big big improvement. The come rides about 0.050 deeper into the cup now, and I'm banking on sufficient width on the gears to make this a non-issue. We'll see.

The shaft was first dialed in to less than 0.001 runout:



A Dremel was mounted to the tool rest, which was set at the 17.5 degree angle we measured on the corresponding cone/rollers:



Final cut with a finer stone. We made multiple passes of about 0.001" per cut:



Competed job after polishing with emery and crocus cloth. There was a bit of chattering that might have been lessened with a sturdier Dremel mounting. Not perfect but a big improvement and as good as its going to get!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 10:56 am:

very nice work. i hope the overland is as good. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:27 pm:

Good work Chris,
That was done in the true spirit of Model T repair and restoration. It is called resourcefulness and creativity. Good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:04 pm:

Chris, how fast were you spinning that part while grinding? PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 11:37 pm:

Hi Pat, sorry I wasn't doing the machining and can't tell you the rpm. We ran the Dremel fairly fast throughout, and increased the lathe speed as the job progressed. Both Dremel and lathe were going a pretty fair clip for the final passes.


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