Do you need to use the choke if it's warm out?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Do you need to use the choke if it's warm out?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:40 pm:

Hi.
I attempted to start my car yesterday and I had the choke pulled out and the fuel flow knob turned up.
After many many trials it finally fired up but for only 20seconds then died.
I've noticed fuel on the garage floor.
WTH??
Please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:43 pm:

It might be flooded. As soon as I pull the choke in this weather and the engine turns over I push it in and my car fires. My model A s are about the same. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

They are all different. But, on a cold engine (Cold, meaning not been run today), mine still require choking even in warm weather, but never on a warm engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 08:52 pm:

The first time I start the car in a particular day, I pull the choke. I only leave it out for about one revolution. It should start right up. If you choke too much it will flood. After it has been run it usually starts without choke. If it turns over a few times without starting, I choke it.

If I am hand starting, I pull the choke and pull up on the crank a couple times. Then turn on the key and pull up on the crank again. It usually starts right up.

If the car sets for half hour or more, it might need to be choked to get it to start again. You need to experiment a bit until you get used to it.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:09 pm:

Thanks Gentlemen.
I was just out again trying to start her. Same thing with gasoline on the floor leaking from the carb and rubber joint.
Damn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:10 pm:

Would someone please describe to me the fuel flow know and when I need to use it?
Thank You.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:10 pm:

Depends on your carb and engine. Some need priming (choking) every time even warm, some do not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:11 pm:

Sorry that's fuel flow KNOB.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:12 pm:

Fuel flow knob? Do you mean the air/fuel mixture? If so, you should only need to make *minor* adjustments once it is set in the position where the car runs. It is not a fuel shutoff valve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:21 pm:

No-I mean fuel flow knob that is is part of the Choke.
The Choke you pull out of course but on that same knob there,there is a marker on that knob and you turn it left or right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:26 pm:

Mike, try turning the knob all the way in till it stops. Then back it off one full turn. On most model T's you'll probably be within +/- 1/4 turn of where it needs to be. Then when you find the spot where adjusting causes the car to run its best, leave it there. If your able to get that much fuel to flow out of the carburetor onto the floor, you're probably only going to need to choke it for just one turn of the engine. I'm finding over time that small adjustments on anything on a Model T are best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:28 pm:

And yes that knob is the spray needle valve when you turn it and the choke when you pull it out. It's the knob you want to open about one turn from the bottom to start with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:28 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:29 pm:

Oh, and unless I'm misunderstanding you, ignore the mark on the knob.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:30 pm:

Hi.
It's thfarthes knob on the right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:35 pm:

What Hal said. Might need a "quickie" for a cold start on a warm day but not much. Fuel on the floor? Coming out of the carb intake. Over choked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:44 pm:

That is a combination choke and spray needle valve. Pull for choke, turn for fuel/air mixture. Turn out about one turn from where it bottoms out. You'll be within +/- 1/4 turn of optimum of where the car will run its best. Once you find that spot you shouldn't have to adjust it again unless something happens to cause you to need to adjust it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:46 pm:

Interesting topic! As Hal said, they're all different! Under a given set of circumstances, some like a little choke, some don't. For what it's worth, here's my "take"on it:

First of all, IMO,...on first attempt, better to NOT choke enough than too much. Not enough choke, no problem,...on second burst of cranking, choke just for a split second,....maybe one or two compression strokes. If still no start, on third little burst of cranking, choke just a bit more. As a general rule, as soon as you smell gasoline, you can be pretty sure that whether the engine starts or not, you've choked enough for the time being. If you smell gasoline, and especially if a bit dribbles out of the carburetor, not only have you probably choked enough, but the engine just might be flooded. If after another short burst of cranking or two, if still no start, you just may have "other problem(s)!

If you think the "non-start" is due to flooding, here's what to do:

Turn ignition off. Open hand throttle wide open. Crank the engine over with a couple good "bursts",...in other words, turn it over a couple revolutions each time. Then, close throttle to just open a couple notches, turn ignition on, and start over,....no choke at all at first. Chances are, she'll fire right up,.....usually works for me.

As an "aside", where I get in trouble is when the engine is not completely cold, like when it's still partially warm from having run, say maybe an hour or so previously. That's when the real question,...."to choke or not to choke". FWIW,........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 09:56 pm:

Well Harold, that pretty much sums up my methods for starting. I'm glad you took the time to explain it in such perfect detail. You really are a "wordsmith"!

I always wanted to use that word. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 10:00 pm:

Mike, can you post a pic of your carb/choke linkage setup when you get a chance? How does it work with pulling for choke, and twisting for mixture adjustment?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

I will post a pic. tomorrow.
Thanks all for your kind help.
Mike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 10:46 pm:

Mike,

Is the place where the gasoline is leaking out near the name plate on the carburetor? There is a vent on the Holley and Ford NH carbs under that plate. Sometimes mine will squirt a bit when I am choking and cranking the engine (hand crank). Quite a bit can come out that way.

If it is leaking somewhere else, take a picture and let us know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:35 am:

The correct answer to the question in the title is Yes or No. As others have noted, the cars are all different and the carbs are all different. Any particular T can be easy starting with one carb, and exasperatingly difficult with another seemingly identical carb. I'd say Mike Garrison and Harold have covered starting procedures pretty well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 02:25 am:

On my '26 with rebuilt NH haven't needed to. Each car is a little different on what the Ol'Girl likes.
Try it and see.
George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:49 am:

Agree. All are different. I have an old JD 2030 gas that you need to choke; but as soon as she fires, you have to push the choke in or it dies and then hard to start again. Go figure???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:02 pm:

Rubber joint? Just because he has the knob does not mean it's hooked up like a 26/27 setup. The knob may only do one thing (or both), ether turn the spray needle or pull the choke. We at this point don't even know what carb he is using. Yes a photo will be helpful. His car is a 21 speedster if it's the one in the profile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ALAN FAIRCLOUGH on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:09 pm:

I pull the choke and turn the engine over twice. Then I turn the key to BATT and turn it over once more. it starts right up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 01:20 pm:

Mark is correct. We don't know what's under the hood. A speedster normally is a combination of different years and even non-Ford parts. This one is ostensibly a 1921, but appears to have a 26-27 transmission. You can't tell what combination of parts is there until you see them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:15 pm:

Definitely have to agree, we don't know what his setup is. I assumed it's similar to a '26-'27 because he asked about choking it and I think I remember him saying something about adjusting "flow" with it. Sometimes I wish someone could be there who knows how to demonstrate how some of this stuff works. Written descriptions are very hard for me to put together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 09:49 pm:

I was just outside trying to get the Speedster to run. She ran....with advice from here.
Also when it stalled after being somewhat warmed up due to dropping the revolutions. It was difficult to restart-UNLESS- I used the choke again until it bucked.
There was also an electrical problem with the knob known as a disconnect from the positive pole.

I will explain more when I feel like it..sorry,
I hate typing.
Thank You Gentlemen.You are Golden.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 09:53 pm:

I meant that I am just tired.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

"Written descriptions are very hard for me to put together." Same here. I often wish the guy asking the question would just post a picture instead of the word salad that is clear only to him. I'm not thinking of anybody in particular. That boat has a lot of guilty parties sailing in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:33 pm:

That boat wouldn't be called the Bounty, would it?

I really try the best I can and I am not very current with the Computers. I just do my best.

I'm an analogue guy.

Isn't it obvious that a young guy loves these cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:36 pm:

Mike, you're doing just fine. Once you "get it" with some of the idiosyncrasies that are the Model T Ford, you're going to have a lot of fun.

Oh, and for the record, I'm far from knowing what I'm doing, and with my limited writing skills, you'll be doing pretty darn good to recognize that my name is Mike.

I'm glad you're here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 04:58 pm:

Always.......but only for an instant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 08:41 pm:

I hit the starter first and then pull the choke up, just for an instant, if the engine does not immediately start.

That mark on the knob is very useful in setting the mixture, after the engine is warmed up and you are driving in high at about 30 mph, you can slowly turn the knob clockwise until the engine starts to miss and then turn it counter-clockwise until the engine starts to load up.

Note the mark position for both events and move the knob to the center of both of those test positions.

Prolonged driving with the mixture too lean may burn your exhaust valves.

Prolonged driving with the mixture too rich will waste gas and may cause a spark plug to foul, usually it is #1 that fouls.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 09:26 am:

Mike,

Those battery disconnect switches can cause all sorts of problems. They don't solve any problems. Best thing that you can do is eliminate that item from your car before you have a fried battery, or ruined generator, or melted ignition coil etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 10:40 am:

In place of a battery disconnect switch, you can splice a fuse into the yellow wire that comes from the battery side of the starter switch, as called out in this diagram:

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 08:33 pm:

I've been following this thread a couple days and got curious. My T hasn't been cranked in 2 days. I always turn the gas off and let it run out and die. It's about 90 here so i went out turned on the gas and It took 14 pulls of the crank to start. I usually choke 2 pulls then I or 2 more it starts. Never a battery only mag


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