Water pumps, horns, air filters and other stupid crap

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Water pumps, horns, air filters and other stupid crap
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:33 pm:

How many of you guys are running air filters on the NH? I recently joined the ranks of the water pumpers at the insistance of my rebuilder... Even though he just fit my crank for me. He is a well respected east coast engine shop and really wanted me to run a water pump this time around. Yes, my radiator is good (4 years old Brassworks) and she never overheated. He feels that the lack of flow around number 4 jug is detrimental. I bought a new pump and put it on.

Anyhow, I've run an air filter in the past and felt that it hampered the engine's performance and fuel mileage. Now, I'm gonna put it back on and run a little slower, I guess. After all the crap I went through on this "second" rebuild in 6,000 miles, clean air and more water circulation seems the way to go. Where do you water pump guys put the horn?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:35 pm:

Oh, and Steve, did you find any decent drill bits yet?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jensen on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:46 pm:

I bought mine with a water pump on it. The horn is in the same place just extended out 3" with a piece of flat stock. It does just clear the hood.

https://youtu.be/r9ir1204Pvo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:52 pm:

If my engine builder told me that, i would have told him that over 15 million engines disagree with his assertions, and loaded it back into my truck. But that's just me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gustaf in Idaho on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 11:53 pm:

I run with an air filter, in this part of the country, to do so with out is a sure path to an early engine failure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:22 am:

When I saw Dean at Richmond he was running a generic 2" air filter from a local auto parts store. It doesn't seem to keep him from driving hundreds of miles.

As for a "well respected east coast engine shop" insisting on a water pump, that's the first I've heard of such a notion. You can count me as one of the skeptics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 02:13 am:

I don't buy the need for a pump.

I've hit 70 mph with a 2 X 4 air filter so I don't think it was doing much restricting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 06:46 am:

Gene, if you get a chance, please post a picture of your filter setup. You Montana 500 guys....!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 07:34 am:

The only thing in your list I run is the horn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 07:43 am:

Well,I think if air filters had been around back then these engines woulda lasted alot longer. Grit is not a mechanical parts friend ,be it a engine or whatever.
If you don't think a engine needs 1, walk out to your modern and pull the air filter. See how long it last.I don't run 1 on mine but it does not go far either.If I drove on tours and such there would be some type of filter. if nothing but a coffee filter wadded up on the end of the carb to keep big stuff out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 07:59 am:

What part of thermal siphon don't your engine builder understand? Ford wasn't the only manufacturer to use thermal siphoning for their cooling system. Several tractor manufacturers used it to. It's an extremely efficient cooling method. I believe water pumps are capable of obstructing water flow and your engine will run hotter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:17 am:

love my water pump.....Jerry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:24 am:

Dave,

I have worked here locally on others cars and perhaps near 50% of them have had air filters added. When there has been an issue, sometimes taking an air filter off of it makes no difference in breathing...other times taking the air filter off cures the problem. This when I think I have all else set up relatively close.

Go figure?

I think I have it figured...but no way to prove it. I don't run filters on any of mine.

My thought...How many CFM is (say) an NH designed for max? You need to pick a filter that is rated 2x to 3x that! Pick one rated the same? As soon as it starts to dust up...you lose high end! Pick one rated for less simply because it 'fits' a lot easier, you get to limp faster, lots faster. Pick one rated a lot more and time (and dirt) is on your side because as it self de-rates due to use, you are still higher than the carb needs at any time.

(Hey Hal...I 'splained' it in one paragraph! :-) )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:32 am:

I've used one of these https://www.modeltford.com/item/CARB-FRE.aspx since I got my T running. She keeps up with unfiltered cars, and is even quicker than some. I can't see putting unfiltered air into an engine. Also I run the dreaded fuel filter, but my T is a 26 with the cowl tank so flow isn't an issue. As to the water pump, I don't see the benefit. I've operated tractors with thermo siphon systems (including a thermostat) for hundreds of hours and they never had an issue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:32 am:

Royce must be sleeping in or outa town! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 08:42 am:

Water pumps on Tís usually means your engine is/was heating up for other reasons; bad radiator, restrictions somewhere?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 09:26 am:

How odd. Still, I suppose, if he's offering any kind of warranty it makes the pump necessary as he suggested it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 09:37 am:

Not all T's that run water pumps have overheating issues. One of our three came to us with a water pump. It was a recent rebuild. After being reamed here for a T with a water pump, I bought the appropriate parts and removed the offending pump. There was no difference with or without the pump in how hot the car ran (motometer).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 09:47 am:

I had a couple water pumps at Chickasha that I took off engines to make them stop leaking. I could not give them away. Ended up throwing them in the dumpster on the last day. Wish I had a hack saw with me to cut off the shafts to make sure they didn't waste anyone else's time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:13 am:

One thing about the Ford system is that the water continues to circulate, even around #4, when you shut it off after a long drive. A water pump that isn't turning will block the flow and hot spots could develop as a result.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:47 am:

Continued circulation after shutoff is why the normal little gurgle doesn't last long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 11:16 am:

I just finished a 400 mile tour with about 175 miles on dirt roads. My air filter picked up a lot of dust/dirt that would have been through the motor. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 11:27 am:

As the water around #4 heats up it rises. The chamber in the top of the head rises from #4 to the water outlet and up to the top of the radiator. As the water rises it draws cooler water in through the inlet to the area around #4.

Actually, a water pump will cause #1 & #2 to run cooler than the others, because the most direct path between the water pump and radiator is past those two cylinders and the pump will circulate the water whether or not they need to be cooled.

If you have a good functioning radiator, and a clean block, you do not need a water pump.

Actually a pump will probably not be a problem in summer, but if you drive in cold weather, you might find that the engine runs too cold unless you also add a thermostat.

Most of the water pumps are prone to leakage, and the positioning of the pump at the lower side of the block will continue to leak when parked. You must be very careful to check the coolant level before starting the engine because just a few drops a day will drain the block if the car is parked for a while.

Anyway, I have used water pumps in the past and found that they are not necessary. But it is your car and if it makes you feel assured go ahead and use one, but keep all of the above in mind.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

All valid points and I had removed the water pump from this car when I got it 6 years ago. At this stage, and after spending loads of money on the engine, twice, the addition of a water pump and air filter doesn't bother me in the least. She had seized once due to wrist pin clearance and later due to piston clearance. Now, I've got Egge pistons in there and am running .005 skirt clearance. See you guys at the Finger Lakes tour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:16 pm:

All the same engine builder?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

I recently installed an air filter on my Kingston L4, it's working great so far:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/633777.html?1461283743

I have noticed a slight increase in power during the summertime since I have replaced the stock hot air pipe with the air filter. I do get water condensation (no ice so far) around the outside of the carb body on every drive. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 01:55 pm:

I dont have a air filter but i did remove the water pump from my 27 roadster and the car runs the same temps. It has a new radiator anyway. I really removed the pump because of reading on the forum that the cars dont need them and never came with them. 1 less thing to worry with!! Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 02:26 pm:

I dont have a air filter but i did remove the water pump from my 27 roadster and the car runs the same temps. It has a new radiator anyway. I really removed the pump because of reading on the forum that the cars dont need them and never came with them. 1 less thing to worry with!! Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 02:26 pm:

Sorry about the double positing. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 06:39 pm:

The first rebuilder retired. The second time around, I just had the crank fit, cam bearings knurled, cam bolts welded and turned and new valves fit by Schwalms Babbited Bearings. Great guy and I'll try whatever he recommends.

Mark, that air filter you fabbed up looks fantastic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 07:01 pm:

Cam Bearings knurled?? This is a new one for me, the outside of the bearings, or the block bores or???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 07:08 pm:

The bearing shells were a sloppy fit in the block so Ora knurled the outer surface of the castings to make them fit the block better. Mike Bender also mentions doing this when the block deems necessary.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration