NEW issue, maybe 12V starter related

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: NEW issue, maybe 12V starter related
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:35 am:

Now a new problem has developed, possibly related to the really harsh initial "bang" on starting.
I went out to start the car yesterday and was met with a no start situation. The engine fires (occasionally back fires, spits and refuses to run properly. upon further inspection I found the clamp that holds the distributor in a fixed position had loosened up enough to rotate freely without moving the timer lever. I retimed the engine several times. TDC, rotate dizzy till spark occurs, retighten clamp.
Retiming makes no difference, the engine continues to backfire etc. I re timed it several times yesterday and no improvement.

The Question is, could the harsh starter activation have caused the dizzy clamp to loosen up? Could it have stripped the dizzy cam gear?

I am going to re time it once more this AM, if it doesn't improve I will pull the dizzy and check out the gears. Something is amiss!

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:56 am:

The common distributor conversion kits have the gear on the camshaft that is a replacement for the original nut. When the nut comes loose (the nut is the gear) then you have the symptoms that you describe.

You will need to remove the distributor and tighten the nut properly. This has nothing to do with the car operating on


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 10:58 am:

Rod, I time my distributor just past TDC, spark rod up. I move the piston about 1/16" down and time it there. I've been running 12v on my roadster for some time and have not had this harsh starting. It just spins up faster than 6v. It might be worth checking the distributor drive gear is in the correct position, pin in place. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Conklin on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 11:01 am:

If the engine cranks OK the starter is not causing a starting problem.
If you are setting the no. 1 piston at its highest point to determine TDC be sure it's on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 11:43 am:

In resetting the timing this morning I got to rotating the dizzy to find the firing point. while rotating it back and forth several times, I detected spark at multiple positions in about a 1/4 turn back and forth.
Royce, I think you may have the correct analysis with regard to the nut (gear) having come loose.
For the umpteenth time, its off with the radiator,dizzy etc and see what I can see.

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 12:29 pm:

You should not have to remove the radiator - that is not going to help anything. Just pull the distributor, tighten the nut, and put the distributor back on. Then find the TDC on #1 by using a plastic McDonalds drinking straw (or similar item) on top of #1 piston while the valves are both closed.

Pull the crank slowly with the key off until you can just detect the piston moving downward. This is the exact point when the points on the distributor need to open with the rotor pointing at #1 with the spark completely retarded. Use an ohmmeter to see point opening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 01:56 pm:

Royce,
Too late, I already pulled the radiator (I'm getting good at it :-))

There are no issues with the distributor gears!
The camshaft gear was tight, I cleaned it off and it is pristine, no chipped or missing teeth, nothing amiss there.
I cleaned out all the grease in the cavity at the bottom of the dizzy and checked to see if the gear in there was tight, it was. Likewise I checked it for missing/damaged teeth, same result, every thing pristine!

Whats left? The igniter (electronic ign).
Highly unuaual for an igniter to act like that, they usually just quit without any symptoms.


I guess
i'll order a 6v igniter and 6 volt coil and be back to 6v totally, that would also solve my slamming/spinning too fast starter.

If anybody has a theory on the multiple firing points, I'm all ears1

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 02:22 pm:

The camshaft gear could be stripped. That would cause problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 02:54 pm:

When attempting to tighten the distributer nut/gear it would spin the engine (the piston was dropping in the cylinder. Wouldn't that indicate a non-stripped cam gear.
I didn't try to turn it very far, so I suppose some teeth could be missing.
I'll try turning it thru a couple of revolutions.

Any other way to ck the main cam gear short of tearing it all down?

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 03:15 pm:

Using the crank, I rotated the cam gear/nut two complete revolutions stopping every 1/8 turn of the crank and checking for any slop in the cam gear (used a wrench on the dizzy cam gear flats, trying to wiggle it. Nothing! no slop at all.
I never noticed any undue noises or binding as I turned the crank, seems like if the teeth were stripped something odd would be occurring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Friday, June 24, 2016 - 03:58 pm:

Rod - One way to check the cam gear would be to remove the generator. You should be able to view all the cam gear teeth as you rotate the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Monday, June 27, 2016 - 01:18 pm:

Got my threads mixed up, sorry about that!

Found the problem! :-)
It was the ground wire from the dizzy to the block.
The wire at the block connection had worked loose and was making intermittent contact, causing all the issues. I am now in the process of soldering all the crimp joints I can find, I'd advise this for everyone.
Thank you to all who made suggestions as to the problem.
as they say, sometimes it is the simplest of things.

Rod
PS
I have also reversed the whole ignition system, it is now 6 volt and running on points instead of the pertronix. I do have a 6 volt igniter on order, but may just stay with the points. no need to comment one way or the other in that regard.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration