Tighten high gear band? Specs?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Tighten high gear band? Specs?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:49 am:

Happily driving my Model T daily now and it has displaced my Porsche in my home garage for awhile.

I'm loving the simple 2 speed design but wonder if it is slipping too much into high gear. Low gear and reverse launch smoothly, and high gear is achievable by backing off the throttle. I don't want to put undue wear on anything, so please advise.

1. Are both foreard gears adjusted on the same band?
2. Are there any torque specs, etc. to follow when adjusting band tension?

Thank You in advance. These are such amazing machines!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 01:15 am:

Hi Chris,

You wrote:

"Low gear and reverse launch smoothly, and high gear is achievable by backing off the throttle."

As with any manual shift transmission, you always close the throttle when you shift.

And:

"1. Are both forward gears adjusted on the same band?"

No. The three bands are for brake, reverse and low Only. High speed is engaged with the clutch, the 25 steel discs.

Also:

"2. Are there any torque specs, etc. to follow when adjusting band tension? "

The general rule of thumb for band adjustment is that any pedal should bottom out about an inch to maybe an inch and a quarter from the floor boards. If any less then it needs to be tightened.

I hope that this helps. Do you have the Ford Service Manual?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 01:51 am:

Thank You

I would love to get the service manual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-itkO9ia8


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 02:34 am:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 03:46 am:

Here is one forum thread (among several) discussing adjusting a slipping high speed clutch: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/447708.html?1401153599


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 08:30 am:

Chris I'm willing to bet that unless you have a very weak or broken clutch spring, simply adjusting the 3 clutch fingers per the link Roger supplied will do it. The tricky part is making sure you don't drop tools and especially the cotter pins down into the transmission! Stuff it with rags, thread dental floss through the eye of the cotters in case you do drop one. Once I had all the rags stuffed in there and sure enough, a "floss-less" cotter decided to find its way in there anyway. I got lucky, I was able to retrieve it. Most people aren't that lucky. Now I always use floss. You can get the handy little 13/16" spacer tool from the vendors to guage your distance to the clutch plate. It's not hard. Takes barely an hour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 11:33 am:

Wow
Thank You!

I will let you guys know how it goes. Putting dental floss through cotter pin says never occurred to me before. Ha!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

I'm beginning to suspect maybe we have a new imaginary friend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:17 pm:

I just ordered the manual.

While Reading the 2014 post I noticed that Royce was from Georgetown Texas at that time. I graduated high school there and one of my best friends there, Mark Miller, has a family collection of tractors and a model T. I have invited him to join this group in case he isn't here already.

I like to use voice to text, so my apologies for typing errors that I may miss.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:33 pm:

Burlap

Here's a quick picture of my burlap seats on my "imaginary" model T. Yesterday I ordered a new interior kit from Langs.
Notice that my Porsche has been relegated to the driveway while I'm playing with Tin Lizzy. I will post the new carburetor and fuel shut off pic in a separate thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:37 pm:

Tail

I made this makeshift taillight with a flashlight and vice grips in order to make some evening drives safer the past couple of nights. The light fixture broke off in my hand when I was trying to replace the bulb, which had been installed with the wrong bulb.

Yesterday I ordered a new taillight with license plate bracket from Lang's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 06:32 pm:

High gear slips under full throttle, even after shifting into it at idle. Tonight I will tackle tightening the screws. Righty-tighty, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 06:51 pm:

Yes.

You may have a weak spring or bad adjustment. However, even with a weak spring, you could probably drive it if you match speed when shifting. Also, if it slips, leave your foot off the pedal and close the throttle. It will likely hook up, then you can open the throttle and drive normally.

One other thing. This may be mentioned above. I know it was mentioned in the past few days. Don't remember if this was the thread or not. Make sure the parking brake lever cam is not holding the clutch shaft from fully engaging.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 07:04 pm:

I've never heard of a high gear band!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 07:08 pm:

Chris, FWIW here's another thing from my own experience tightening the clutch finger screws on two separate cars, all I needed to do is turn them one-half turn and of course pop the cotter back in. Hopefully that's all yours will need. You don't want to "over screw" them in. Once you do all 3 you can gauge the distance to the plate and decide if you think it'll be enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 08:34 pm:

Chris - Forgive the "thread drift", but you mention that you use "voice-to-text", and you said something about,...."apologies for typing errors that I may miss".

I'm curious how well that "voice-to-text" works, and on average, how many "errors" occur that you have to correct. In other words, does "voice-to-text" work pretty well? Just wondering,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 08:52 pm:

Thx again, all.

Too hot today to open the transmission yet, but I did add chrome wingnuts to the windshield so it now opens for the first time since the last paint job.

Harold, I use the microphone button beside the spacebar on my iPhone and iPad and will post a pic. It is about 90% accurate if I speak slowly and replaces misspelled words with a quick touch of the screen on the word in question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 08:52 pm:

Voicetext

Spell correction example


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, June 27, 2016 - 12:21 pm:

There are two other things which affect the operation of the high. The spring is one thing and instructions for adjusting the clutch fingers are shown above.

The other two things are: The adjustment of the parking brake rods and the adjustment of the link between the pedal and the clutch lever.

For the adjustment of the parking brake rods, they must not be adjusted too long. If too long they will pull the parking brake lever so that the cam rests on the adjustment screw of the clutch lever and when you go from low to high, the clutch will not completely release. You can check for this by pushing the parking lever all the way forward and holding it while you let the pedal into high. If the high works when you hold the parking lever forward, adjust the rods half a turn at a time tighter until the parking brake lever will stay forward all the way.

The other adjustment of the link is shown in the diagram I will post below. If that link is too long, it will keep the clutch from releasing.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 09:30 pm:

Thank You!

Baby steps for me

Today I tightened the bands for break and low gear, and added the oil filter and some magnets. I need to read some more before I figure out how to adjust the high gear clutch, if it even needs that.

I think the high gear vocational shutter might be an engine Miss instead of a slip. I checked and verified that all four cylinders are getting spark. Next I am going to drive it and check each cylinder jacket temperature to see if one is cooler.

I greased the fan today but have yet to find the grease fitting for the commutator. I hear some tapping from that area that worries me a bit. I am not yet sure what the normal sound should be with this crankshaft and firing order, but I think there is a stumble under full throttle load.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 09:32 pm:

Oh, and yes, there is more than a 1/16" play in the yoke.

Thank you for the excellent diagram that I can use soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 01:12 am:

Keep us up to date Chris. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 01:27 am:

Ok

Thank You for your interest!

My shifting has improved, so I think I'm getting less slippage and I first suspect in high gear. At this point I'm suspecting an occasional engine miss that is causing a shutter under load.

Also, Without a tachometer I am not sure if I have been taking the engine up to high enough RPM in Low to give High gear a fair shot without lugging the engine. I can use my GPS for miles per hour if anyone has a suggested shift speed. One of the YouTube videos said to basically use Low to barely get rolling, but I would like a MPH number to help me train my ear.

I did tighten the Low gear & brake bands one turn each and love the simple design. I saw the High Gear fingers but lacked the confidence and knowledge to touch them yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 01:28 am:

When I've adjusted the clutch, I loop thin wire through the eye of the cotter pin instead of dental floss prior to removing it.

I do the same thing when installing the new cotter pins.

I don't see any reason to stuff rags in the transmission while doing this as long as a wire is through the eye of the pins while removing or installing them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 02:23 am:

Oh, and here is the updated new taillight in case you did not see the other thread I posted about it. Taillight


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 02:24 am:

The dental floss idea is genius.

I still need to see a video of someone actually adjusting the clutch screws before I dare to try it myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 08:56 am:

Chris, call me on that. You have my number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 11:03 am:

I scanned again the above posts and I didn't see this, so will post here.

When you shift from low to high or from high to low, you should try to match the engine speed with the speed it will go after the shift is complete.

So, when shifting up from low to high, as you let the pedal out pause a fraction of a second in neutral while you push the accelerator up to slow the engine, then let the pedal out and pull the throttle down to accelerate in high. This will eliminate a shudder and allow the clutch to fully engage without slipping.

If shifting down from high to low, you leave the accelerator down so that the engine will speed up as you pass through neutral.

By doing both of the above, you will make the shift smoother and also eliminate wear on the bands and clutch.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 12:54 pm:

Thank You

Should I order the transmission adjustment tool, or is is unnecessary?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 01:38 pm:


I'm guessing that "transmission adjustment tool" means the band adjusting wrench (#1917), shown on top here. Every T should have it or the ratchet version (bottom). The #1917 wrench was produced in the millions, and judging by how common they are today there may still be a million of them around. They aren't quite a dime a dozen, but you can see it from here. PM me your mailing address and I'll send you one for the postage. The ratchet does the same job more conveniently. It's much less common, but you can often find it at swap meets for $10 or less. You can use the #1917 until you find one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 01:46 pm:

I should add that the band adjusting end of the #1917 wrench is proportioned to work in the tight space around the band nuts. It shouldn't be used for nuts that need more force. You find a lot of these bent open because of that. In that case I squash them in a vise to return them to the proper 11/16".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 07:30 am:

Steve. Those wrenches are very cool! I would love to have one and am wondering if there was ever a Ford toolbox I can mount on the running board out side my fake driver's door.

Chris Laughary
5016 Spedale Court
Suite #266
Spring Hill, TN 37174

Chris@Laughary.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 10:43 pm:

Done!

No more high gear slippage!

Thank You!!


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