Converting back to points in distributor

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Converting back to points in distributor
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 11:32 am:

Having never done this, would someone correct me if my procedure is wrong?

1. remove electronic module.
2. remove 12v coil.
3. remove 12v battery.
4. install points.
5. set points.
6. install condenser.
7. install 6 volt coil.
8. install 6v battery.

Am I missing anything?

I am switching back to 6 volt from 12. the car was originally 6v when I got it, I changed engines and the new engine was setup for 12v.

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 11:34 am:

Are you keeping the ground polarity the same?

If you currently have 12V bulbs, you'll want to switch them back to 6V.

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 11:59 am:

Mark,
Yes, polarity will still be Neg ground.
the bulbs were never changed, so will stay as is.

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:03 pm:

You might try just changing the battery. The Pertronics modules work down to 4 volts I think.

Otherwise just go to the nearest part store and ask for points and condenser for a '65 Volksbuggen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

Royce,
I think I found the problem referenced in my other thread. The ground wire was loose and making contact intermittently. However, somehow it appears that I fried the pertronix igniter as I'm not getting any spark at all, so I decided that switching back to points/6v would be the quickest way to at least get some spark and check out my grounding theory.

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 01:16 pm:

It depends on your generator. We ran a Pertronics and found it failed because the generator spiked the voltage between 13.5 and 17 volts and blew up the pertronics while aceraging 15.14 volts. Here is a picture of the proof.




22


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

That is the problem with modern electronics crap. It often fails and then you are on the trouble trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 02:54 pm:

Royce, alternators have better voltage regulation and don't have the spiking issues like generators have.

All new ignition is usually a Hall effect type system solid state much like pertronix and doesn't fail because of their better voltage regulation.

I spoke to the folks at Pertronix and they stated that Pertronix modules fail above 14.4 or so and as you can see mine was averaging way above that and running in the 15 volt range pretty consistently.

My first one lasted three years and the second one only lasted one trip around the block. That's when we got out the fancy Fluke meter and read what was going on. Pertronix gave me another one but it is still in the box and I went back to points.

Be careful when you purchase coils because some of them have internal condensers and some require one of them mounted to the distributor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 08:23 pm:

So, you intend on running 12 volt bulbs on 6 volts or were the 6 volt bulbs being run on 12 volts? Somehow this seems odd and not the best of ideas.
I run distributors on all 4 T's, two on 12 volt and 2 on 6 volt, all with points. My luck with Petronics has not been good. I ran Petronics on all our old VW's with no issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 09:18 am:

Frank,

The cheap solid state electronic regulators in some of the 1 wire alternators sold by our favorite T vendors are often the cause of Pertronics units being destroyed. Those alternators put out full field unregulated voltage which runs too much current through the cheap Pertronics unit, which immediately fails. If the car has a distributor with points it boils the oil in the coil until the coil fails. If the coil is a good quality Bosch unit that can take lots of heat it will cause the condenser to fry. This is why distributor equipped T's break down a lot - it is not the distributor's fault, it is excess voltage.

Sometimes the alternator is running full field because there is a bad ground connection or a failed battery cutoff switch.

This is why you can't go on a tour with a dozen Model A Fords without seeing at least one or two of them changing a condenser or a coil. All of them are typically converted to an alternator with substandard quality that causes no end of troubles. The Model A crowd is convinced that anything original is bad, so their cars are usually not too reliable.

The Model T crowd typically have their cars running on MAG, so bad alternators are just an inconvenience other than the occasional cooked or blown up battery.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 09:41 am:

In about fifteen years of Becker alternator use with six volt and point ignition two issues turned up. A set screw on the distributor drive slipped changing timing was one. The second one was continuity lost end to end on the rotor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 01:01 pm:

Tom,
Let me clarify the lighting situation.
Initially the car came to me a 100% 6 volt, including the lights.
I came across a 1924 Model T engine that had been rebuilt about 10 years ago, this engine had been set up with a Texas T distributor with a 12V pertronix module installed 12V coil etc.
I switched the two engines, i.e. put the rebuilt (12v equipped engine into the car).
The car still had all the 6 volt stuff it came with including the light bulbs. I just never got around to changing the bulbs. This all transpired in the last two weeks, so now you know "The Real Story"

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 01:12 pm:

Royce, I agree with you as I stated with my diagram. The average voltage is 15.1 and Pertronix just can't handle that voltage.


Rod, If you run six volt lamps on 12 volts they will get white hot and burn out very quickly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Letcher - Eugene Oregon on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 01:20 pm:

NO, NO, NO!
As per the title of this thread, I am switching all of the 12V stuff that came with the rebuilt engine to 6 volt.
All of the stuff that was in the car before less either engine, was 6V. It is still 6V.
The whole car (every electronic part in it) will now be 6 VOLT.

Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 04:11 pm:

Hey Rod----------any 12 volt parts you care to part with reasonable? I intend to use 12 volt on my 16 mostly for better lighting with the idiots around here. Astoria is not that far away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 04:19 pm:

You are right Paul and 12 volt light bulbs are available at any drug store at any hour. Try to buy a six volt bulb when you need one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Sunday, June 26, 2016 - 04:19 pm:

You are right Paul and 12 volt light bulbs are available at any drug store at any hour. Try to buy a six volt bulb when you need one.


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