Honing Cylinders

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Honing Cylinders
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 02:20 pm:

After boring cylinders, honing off the last thousandth to fit the sleeves. (I call them "Jeg's jugs"). That Black & Decker drill is almost as old as the model T. They're both made in the USA. With it's two speeds, the Model T has one more than the drill. Also, the Model T has a reverse.Honing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 02:54 pm:

Lester - By your profile, I see that you are a Model "T" owner, and by your post and great photograph, new to the Forum! Welcome! And, you are "obviously" an experienced "T" mechanic!

This thread, and, the fact that you have started it, tells me that you would be a "T" guy that could add a lot to the forum. I can't help thinking that your installation of cylinder sleeves, obviously to save a worn-out block, is something that is usually done by an engine rebuilder/machinist. Thanks for starting this thread, and please keep us informed in regard to what you are doing with this engine block. I've been a forum member for a long time, and frankly, I don't ever remember anyone posting much about installation of cylinder sleeves.

Again, welcome to the forum, thanks for starting this post, and please post updates and let us learn from what you are doing,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 03:00 pm:

Lester,
Do you leave a lip to lock the sleeves from moving too far down?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 03:22 pm:

Actually, Harold, I have no experience with Ts, but I used to mess around with engines a lot before the manufturors learned how to make them go 300k miles with nothing but oil changes. I've always wanted a T and I'm more interested in working on it than driving it, so I chose the one needing the most work that I could find. (But i will love driving it.) And yes, Dave, I did leave a lip at the bottom. Thank you both for commenting, and I wish you lived closer to VA.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 03:51 pm:

Lester - Our "conversation" here reminds me of something I have read many times on the forum,...and that is the fact that so often, guys get in trouble by having some very good automotive machine shops do machine work on their "T" engines, but it often leads to trouble as the Model "T" has some "quirks" that are important, but unknown to "modern" machinists. Only example I can think of right now involves the Model "T" crankshaft:

It's important that when grinding a crankshaft, the journals must be ground with a slight radius between journal and crank cheek. Modern machinists do not usually to that, and when the radius is requested, they tend to feel that the radius is not important. When actually, the REAL reason is that the radius is an important step that modern machine shop equipment is not set up to do, so, the machinist just doesn't bother with the radius, simply because it's too much trouble, and, he normally doesn't do that anyway.

Sorry to "ramble" here Lester, and I'm just a "shade tree mechanic" anyway,.....certainly not a machinist, but I have a feeling that we can all learn a lot from guys like you on the forum. And if nothing else, the stuff we can learn can, if nothing else, help us pick engine rebuilders, machinists, etc. that know how to deal with Model "T" engines, transmissions, generators, starters, etc, etc the right way, even if "the right way" is counter to modern machinist practice! FWIW,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 05:53 pm:

Lester,
It would be neat to see the rebuild in person--so keep posting pics for us!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 06:28 pm:

Quote, no experience with T's

May be of some help,
If you are going to fit valve seats, do so before the bore work.
Give the pistons a min of .004" clearance.
Make sure the wrist pin clamping bolts on the rods, face the cam shaft.
Wrist pins an eazy sliding fit in pistons.

More things when you get to the trans later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland, Lambsburg Va on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 09:36 am:

Lester how much press fit you giving it?
I am in carroll co.not to far away
Randall


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 09:47 am:

To Harold Schwendeman. ALL crankshafts need a radius between the journal and the cheek. If a crankshaft grinder doesn't know that or understand that find one who does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 11:35 am:

Randall, I'm giving it .003. Glad to learn of someone on this side of the Mississippi.

Lester.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland, Lambsburg Va on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 12:45 pm:

I have a large press you can use if you like,I did hammer them in but press is so much easier


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 02:07 pm:

"I've always wanted a T and I'm more interested in working on it than driving it, so I chose the one needing the most work that I could find."

There's a first......

Welcome to the forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 04:15 pm:

Thank you Randall, but I use dry ice and just slide them in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 06:56 pm:

Lester
Thanks for the posting and tips
In a couple of weeks I hopefully will be installing the sleeves into my 5 main aluminum T block. I was thinking about the dry ice idea. I'm putting a aluminum BB Rajo on it so no valve seats to worry about
I wish you all the best of luck and success


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland, Lambsburg Va on Friday, July 01, 2016 - 06:58 pm:

I've did that on Mack engines , no dry ice just lube with brake fluids and in freezer overnight


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 11:39 am:

Les S. ;
Here's my recipe for slipping in Jeg's jugs:
1. The sleeves will arrive coated with something to protect them from corrosion. This must be removed with solvent or it will freeze solid and interfere.
2. Place the dry sleeves in ziplock bags and put them in a picnic cooler with the dry ice. The bags will prevent them from frosting up en route from the cooler to the block.
3. While the sleeves are cooling, use a heat gun to uniformly warm the whole block to about 180 - 200 F. Dry ice is about 110 deg. below zero, so this warming of the block will about double the temp. differential. Since your sleeves need to shrink about 3 mills before you get any clearance at all, this will way more than double your clearance.
4. Keep your sleeve in the plastic bag until you have it right above the cylinder. Sip it out of the bag and directly into the hole. This will prevent frost.
5. I always have a 6" 2x4 and large hammer laying next to the block just in case, but i've never needed it. What you don't want, of course, is to get the sleeve half way and lose the temperature differential. If that happens, you need to fab a heavy steel disk to fit under the sleeve and pull it with a length of all thread. I've done this with old worn out sleeves, and it's tedious.
The coefficient of thermal expansion of cast iron is .000006 inches per deg F., so you can do the arithmetic.
Lester


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 11:51 am:

Correction:
Coefficient of thermal expansion: .000006 inches per inch deg. F. In other words, multiply by the bore.
Lester


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