How about 48 volts for the starter - will the Bendix survive?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: How about 48 volts for the starter - will the Bendix survive?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:01 am:

Reading some technical news where 48 volts will be the norm in automobile electrical systems. One reason is the Stop-Start vehicle systems that is becoming common in many regions of the world. Those that have the experience of "free starts" are familiar with the "new technology." I wonder if my starter and Bendix will survive adding a battery of 48 volts?

https://www.navigantresearch.com/research/48-volt-systems-for-automotive-applica tions

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2016/04/13/delphi-48-volt-technology-new-c ars-2017/82949374/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:10 am:

I like the concept if it is reversible and can be executed economically. We already get 20 mpg and never drive far.

Are you thinking of connecting a starter button under the clutch?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:11 am:

When you do it, I want to be there to watch. From a safe distance, of course.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:43 am:

There are individuals on this forum of a certain age who will remember that at one time with a manual transmission,(no fuel to speak of) you could move your vehicle with a manual transmission in low gear. This was done by engaging the starter. Usually a truck. Mostly with a 6volt battery. And yes with a starter button, not under the clutch, but on the floor. An early hybrid?

I do not think that counts as "Start-Stop."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:58 am:

If a bendix does not want to survive at 12 volts, how would it survive at 48?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

Gee at that RPM the motor would be preheated by the time it started, Pull the plugs and the T might go faster on the starter... would that make it a hybrid?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 12:23 pm:

Tom did an outstanding job with outstanding tools and outstanding knowledge. Why is this issue brought up again other then more social jabbering.
My opinion!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 02:50 pm:

Whaaaat? Paul, did I miss something here?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 03:00 pm:

Dave,
Did you miss this one...

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/653383.html?1467567809


????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 05:37 pm:

Yeah, I watched it for a few days, then lost interest. Didn't know this was a follow-up/related to the other thread, so didn't know what Paul was referring to, as there was no reference in this thread to the other.

Thanks for clearing this all up for me. Much appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 07:23 pm:

About 15 years ago this came up. The rationale was that there was no need for a camshaft as the job could be done better with solenoids that could be computer-controlled. 48 V would cut the amperage and the wire size substantially. I'm still waiting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:53 pm:

When the carb on my 66 F100 got a piece of metal under the needle and seat and caused fuel to boil out of it,I had to get it towed home. I used the reverse and the starter to move it about 60 feet to a place the roll back could just back up to it instead of fighting the parking lot spaces.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:57 pm:

FOUND !! Steve's hidey hole for observation


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:33 am:

Sorry to have up set the balance of Nature on the Forum.

The reason for the comment, as technology changes for the automobile (6-12 Volts), the industry is moving towards 48 volts to operate starters. At some point in the future of how to improve the starting of the T with an electrical starter - the question will be asked about using maybe 48 volts or what is available on the market for automobiles.

To those who heard it before - get ready you will hear it again.

Sidenote - If you have not driven a new car with stop-start technology it is unnerving at first in heavy stop and go traffic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 11:54 am:

In a word NO.
One of the leading reasons for the higher voltage systems are the reduction in current requirements for the same power. With the lower current, the wire diameter can be reduced resulting in lower weight. Most of the electronics in modern cars needs 3.3 volts so a efficient method of reducing the prime battery voltage is required and again a higher voltage input system is the most efficient.
Will we ever need to run our Ts on 48 volts, I doubt it but I am sure that the latest Toyota geared motor could be adapted by some enterprising individual.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Rose on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:30 pm:

I doubt that they will use a bendex to start the car. I would guess that it would be similar to a golf cart system. More like a starter motor and generator combination.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Thursday, July 07, 2016 - 11:18 am:

The little Honda Insight had two batteries, a 12 volt for the normal accessories and 200 volt for starting and battery assist. The engine had a 200 volt alternator built between the motor and gearbox , then diode rectifier arrangement to charge the 200 battery. From there, they used an electronic inverter to charge the 12 accessory battery. So I think Jim is correct, Toyota will probably not make a 48 geared starter. We, along with the other 100 million 12 volt vehicles, will be screwed....


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