HELP! Rear end assembly problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: HELP! Rear end assembly problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 08:36 pm:

Sorry didn't mean to yell. Crying out emphatically! Assembling rear end as per Glen's helpful book. Everything went well on other rear ends 3 so far in 6 years ( different cars) This one from my 1914 (older style solid spool and may not be year correct) will not cooperate. Gear lash seems good so I will have to remove some thickness from right side brass thrust washer. I have already removed .062 from the washer .031 from each side. Rear end will not turn when bolted. It looks like I must remove another.048 from the washer. This seems like too much to remove I need some cool helpful thoughts. What might be wrong1914


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 08:49 pm:

Could it be a steel thrust washer that rides on a locating pin?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 09:27 pm:

I have taken it apart twice hoping that was it however each time the washers were in place on the pins


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 09:32 pm:

Better picture. I had to build the commercial roadster body but have a lot of mechanical work to do yet. Rear end major frustration now!1914


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 09:45 pm:

Check to see if the steel thrust washer pins (check all of them) are riding too high, above the steel thrust washer and if they have a larger base then the pin itself that it is flush with the dif and case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 09:48 pm:

I have checked that several times They seem to be flush or some possibly just a little under flush


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:05 pm:

Check to see that there are no burrs between the half's of the dif cases. Do you have the axles in place and if so have you installed the thrust disk between them? Do the axles turn nicely? Are you checking the gear lash with the axles and bearings in place? My way of thinking is that there is enough slop in everything that when you check the clearance the dif want to rock and show a false reading even with the axles in place, point I am making is, you might be able to spread that .048 between the two sides. I put my later ones together so there is some drag without the gasket in place.
Maybe you could also put a gasket between the two half's, that would add about .005 to the clearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:06 pm:

John : I'm assuming that you are getting the 0.048" by measuring the gap between the housing halves when you attempt to bolt them together with everything in place. I agree that removing another 0.048" is excessive especially after already removing 0.062" from the thrust washers. All I can think of is that the carrier halves that hold the three spider gears are not mated properly or tightly together causing the assembly to be too wide, or the fiber washer between the axle ends is too thick and holding the carrier halve apart. Just to confirm, the bronze thrust washers are around 0.200" and each of the four steel washers are around 0.068" thick. Also, have you tried to bolt the assembly together without installing the pinion/driveshaft?? Good luck ; Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:08 pm:

Let it sit for a day or so then go back thru it and make sure everything is seated correctly and then put it together and see how much you need to remove from the bronze washer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:13 pm:

Thanks Mark, I had to put a .048 spacer at 3 bolt points and tighten bolt to allow crown to turn- any less and crown will not move and I have already removed .062 from the brass washer That would mean I would have to remove another .048 from the washer A total of .110- Seems like a lot or is it That is my question


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:50 pm:

Are you rebuilding a rear end that was one unit or putting together parts? This may sound goofy but make sure the sleeves are fully seated and that the two half's of the dify housing have no gaps at the joint when assembled. The reason the fiber disk between the axles has been suggested is that if it's too thick it will want to bow out the case.
Besides taking a day off from it, if you can get a fresh set of eyes on it maybe something will pop out. Without seeing in person that's about all I got! Waiting to hear what it was.
MarkG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 02:18 am:

Mark This was a complete unit The only change I have made is to install a new Passenger side axle when I replaced the fibre thrust washer between the axles. I will check the fit of the spider gear case to make sure they are fitted properly Thanks I had not thought of that. I'll take a look in the morning ( or later this morning actually) Thanks again I appreciate the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 07:51 am:

Bruce Thanks Im going to check the carrier halves. I have trying bolting the unit together without the driveshaft


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:23 pm:

You rarely find a rear axle housing that isn't bent. Check for proper alignment, and only use the Ford Service book for instructions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Eaton on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:57 pm:

I want to thank everyone who helped. I checked everything mentioned and the two things that I ended up doing were #1 - I found one pin in thew crown end that stuck up a bit - I Dremel tooled it down flush #2 I took .003 off the thrust washer on the crown gear side Those two actions gave me the clearance to assemble the pieces. It seems to turn smooth Next is installation in car. Thanks again! Another vintage "T" can tour the streets and roads of Nova Scotia. Cheers, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

Larry - Just checking, as I have read both; are you saying that we should not use Glen Chaffin's axle book for repairing/restoring our rear axles? And if so, why? Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

John glad to hear you got it licked! :-)
MarkG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Grube on Friday, July 08, 2016 - 12:09 pm:

crazy question, how did you remove the material from the thrust washers. I need to do that as mine is a little too tight and taxes the engine. I don't have a lathe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 08, 2016 - 12:21 pm:

I drove three finishing nails into a piece of 2x10 in a pattern to fit inside the ID of the bronze washer and with their heads low enough so that they wouldn't stick up above the thickness of the washer. Then, I used my orbital sander with an 80 grit disc to sand down the washer to thickness.

sand and check, sand some more and check again, repeat as necessary. :-)


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