25 Model TT - New owner looking for guidance

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 25 Model TT - New owner looking for guidance
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 11:57 pm:

I am a new owner to a 1925 Model TT that has been in storage since 1990 and I just got it home a few weeks ago. I grew up around my parents 1928 Model A and this was my chance to have my own piece of history which I will be able to share with my children. That being said, I am not mechanically inclined and I have to admit that I purchased it sight unseen. I could use any insight from understanding the foot pedals (I have done some research) and how to operate it to best sources for supplies. The only issue I am really sure of is that it is missing the side windows but in general it looks great. Thanks for the help.1925 Model TT


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:10 am:

As we like to tell the new folks around here, welcome to the affliction. There's a lot to learn. Here's a place to start: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Mitch Taylor covers driving instructions pretty well here: http://www.fordmodelt.net/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:14 am:

Welcome to the wonderful world of TT's, Matt!
About the side windows... If you don't have window lift straps on the inside of the doors, the glass will fall due to gravity, thus appearing to not have any door glass. If you weren't planning on leaving it to your children, strongly recommending to having the safety glass.
You've come to the right place. There's 'a ton' of knowledge on this Forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:35 am:

Nice rig .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 12:44 am:

Nice truck Matt! I have a 25 TT also. Does it have high speed gears in the differential? I think my TT draws more attention than my roadster. You've come to the right place to get help and info. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:00 am:

Well Matt, as Steve says welcome. I have two T's and get you a catalog from Lang's Old Car Part's and see the books listed in the catalog. he Black Model T service book is a must. If you can find a Club group join it and most likely you will find a huge bit of help.
Here in Redding, Cal we don't have a club for T's but there are a bunch of T's. I read 99% of the post here, and if you can and see something that you feel is important try and print it and make a loose ring book or file folder.
Welcome and good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:02 am:

-Matt-
My typing didn't keep up... Meant to say "EVEN IF YOU WEREN'T LEAVING IT TO YOUR CHILDREN....."
I've got my Dad's '26 TT, and have saved a lot of references. Let me know if I can provide something. There are many TT owners on here.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:07 am:

Steve - Thanks for the links!

Mary - Any thoughts on where to get the measurements for the glass and where to get it from?

George - Thanks!

Pat - I am not sure on the differential but it appears to have a Ruckstell Axle if that means anything.Interior


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:34 am:

The Ruckstell axle gives you an extra low speed between Ford low and Ford high. But you have another extra lever. That means not only a Ruckstell but also an aux transmission, giving you extra high speeds too.

I don't know about the rest of the truck, but the pedals are 26-27. I suspect it has been misidentified because it's a 1926 model made in late 1925. Confusion over model year versus calendar year is very common, and sometimes people misremember things. The engine serial number will give you the date the engine was assembled.

I expect you can get window measurements from another truck. Any local glass shop can make the windows for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:38 am:

Matt,

What is your location ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 02:17 am:

Burger - Matts' profile indicates Rangely, Colorado, which is approx. midway between Denver and Salt Lake City.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 04:09 am:

Matt, we need more pictures of your truck. Top, bottom, left side, right side, front, back, etc. It appears to have an auxiliary transmission as well as a Ruckstell rearend, which is a good thing. Looks like a really nice truck. Dave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 07:23 am:

Matt, that is a great looking truck. There is a lot of good advice here. One thing that I can add is that you will want to research "auxiliary brakes" considering that you have an auxiliary transmission. The Model T brakes is in the transmission and if the aux. transmission is in neutral then the truck won't stop. I can't tell if your truck has them or not but it doesn't look like it.

When you do an internet search, add "MTFCA" and "TT" into the wording and you will come up with a lot of information. I wouldn't recommend using the search function on this site as it is a little bit quirky.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 07:56 am:

I know nothing of the TT rear end other than what I see in parts books, looking at that it shows the brake expander at the bottom of the backing plate and Matts photo shows a rod/cable at the top, spring perch height, so maybe it has auxiliary brakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:30 am:

The brake expander for a TT is actually on the front of the backing plate area at about the mid-height level. The actuator lever extends upwards. The rods that are shown in the picture are in the correct position for the stock parking brake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe LaMacchia, St. Louis, MO. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:40 am:

Good lookin' truck! Have fun with it and good luck.
A Ton Truck will be my next endeavor, as soon as I find the space for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 11:01 am:

Welcome and nice TT truck. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron frazer on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 11:20 am:

welcome to the addiction. I have a 1925 model TT also with a ruckstell and I have a Muncie aux trans for it too but don't have it installed on the truck. It one of my favorites just to drive around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 11:38 am:

Would be good to know if it has auxiliary brakes on the rear wheels. They would be external bands wrapped around the out side of the drum. The truck appears to have two auxiliary transmissions, likely a Ruckstell and Warford. This will give you twelve forward gear choices. Without the accessory brakes, if you get one of those in neutral and can't get it back into gear, which can be very difficult, impossible in fact if you stall the engine, you will have no brakes. A dangerous situation. Good news is, you can get a couple of different styles of brakes available new for these trucks.
The side windows are a simple affair with no regulators. They have a strap attached to them with a series of holes. You would hook one over the little protruding knob on the inside of the door depending on how far you want the window up or down. Safety glass is a must.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:14 pm:

Lots of good sage advice and very much appreciated. I am going to provide a few more photos and see if that answers any questions. I am vexed by the two shifters so any insight would help. I did get it up and running but had a glitch with the water pump so it is down right now. What I did find is that the shifter to the left controlled forward and reverse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:24 pm:

Another Pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:26 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:27 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:29 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:30 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:32 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:33 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:34 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:36 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:37 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:39 pm:

Another


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:40 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:42 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:43 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:46 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:47 pm:

Engine number is 12372299


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Tuominen on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:55 pm:

To answer your question about the size of the side window glass, I went to the One Ton Truck price list (TT1). All the TT glass measurements are on page 7. The side glass measures 24 15/32 - 24 17/32 wide by 20 1/2-20 9/16. Appears Ford gave enough fudge factor to allow for "close enough". Any glass company will be able to meet your needs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:57 pm:

Thanks Tom!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nicholas Lingg - Tarboro, NC on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:59 pm:

Is that a broken PAN ear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:23 pm:

Looks that way, now relying on the warford mount.
Matt, you have brakes.

Thanks Justin,
This is the description that obviously isn't right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:46 pm:

Matt,

A couple of observations:

1. The brackets that go under the rear hubs and protrude behind the brake drums appear to be what's left of a set of Rocky Mountain auxiliary brakes. Is there any chance the rest of the parts came with the truck? Some maybe under the seat?

2. I can't tell for sure, but the auxiliary transmission shifter and the shifter tower cap with the 3 screws sure looks like a Muncie to me. Take a look on its sides and I bet you'll find it labeled "Muncie".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:59 pm:

Matt, the shifter closer to the seat is a Muncie transmission. It has a reverse gear, but is not made to control forward and reverse. The Ford planetary tranny does that. It is controlled by the three pedals on the floor. The Ruckstell and Muncie are both accessory, auxiliary units and the truck is fully functional without them having two forward speeds and one reverse. The extra trannies give the truck more speed or pulling power, depending on the gear selected. You have 14 available, if you count using both the Ford and Muncie in reverse. Looks like the truck had brakes in the rear at some time, but the bands are missing. You really need to get brakes back there. Learn to operate the Ford transmission first. The links above are good for that. When you are practicing, put the Muncie or Ruckstell in low and it will be easier, without stalling the engine. Muncie low is left and back, Ruckstell low is straight back. With everything in low it will drive like a tractor. When you are comfortable with controlling the T tranny, shift the others up for faster speeds. DO NOT attempt to shift the Muncie on the fly without rear brakes. Trust me, it won't end well. Have fun and be safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:14 pm:

Here are a couple of pictures of what is missing from your brakes. They are bands with friction material on them that clamp down on the rear drums to assist with stopping. Mine are AC brand and are cable operated. As Henry noted yours look like Rocky Mountain and probably were operated by solid rods.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 08:18 pm:

Matt, the model T's transmission has two forward speeds and one reverse speed which are controlled by the foot pedals. The pedal on the right is the transmission brake. The pedal on the left is for the two forward speeds. Ford called this the clutch pedal but, it operates differently than that of a normal car. When you press this pedal all the way down the truck will take off in low gear. When you take your foot off this pedal the truck shifts into high or second gear. If the pedal is somewhere in the middle the transmission is neither in high nor in low. That's neutral. Anytime you want to stop the truck the pedal must be in the neutral position otherwise the engine will stall.

The lever all the way to the left operates the drum brakes on the rear wheels and also disengages the high speed clutch. When the lever is all the way forward the hand brake is released and the transmission can be shifted between high and low. When the lever is in the middle the brakes are still off but the truck can only be driven in low and in reverse by pressing the pedal in the center. When the lever is all the way back the transmission is in neutral and the hand brake is set. Essentially this lever blocks out high gear and operates the drum brakes.

The lever in the center of the floor that can only be moved back and forth is the shift lever for the Ruckstell two speed axle. When the lever is forward the axle is in direct drive or standard Ford ratio. When the lever is pulled back the axle is in under drive. The other lever is for the Muncie transmission which has under drive, direct drive, overdrive and reverse speeds. I've never driven a T with a Muncie so I don't know how the shift pattern for it is. Others here will have to help you with that. Until you learn to operate the Ford transmission I would leave the Ruckstell lever in the under drive position (pulled back) and leave the Muncie in 2nd gear or direct drive. This way your top speed is around 15 mph.

Before you attempt to drive the truck make absolutely certain that the hand brake works properly. A lot of T's have hand brakes that either don't work well or don't work at all. This is extremely important because if either the Ruckstell or the Muncie get stuck in neutral the foot brake will no longer work. Jack up both back wheels and pull the brake lever back all the way. Now try to turn the wheels with your hands. They should be locked solid and impossible to turn. If you can turn either of the wheels then the brake rods need to be adjusted.

Once you are sure that the hand brake works properly take the truck to an area where there is as little traffic as possible. Pull the brake lever all the way back. Retard the spark by pushing the lever under the left side of the steering wheel all the way up and pull the throttle lever down a few notches from the top. Turn the key on battery and press the starter button. Once the engine start switch to mag and slowly pull the spark lever down until the engine picks up speed and smooths out. Sit your left foot on the clutch pedal on the left. Don't press it just hold it where it is. Now move the brake lever all the way forward. Give the engine a little gas and press the pedal down. As soon as the truck starts to move give a little more gas and push the pedal down firmly. Try to push the pedal down as quickly as possible without the truck lurching forward. Increase your speed until your moving a few miles an hour and release the pedal. Now you're in high gear. To stop close the throttle completely, press the pedal into the neutral position and step on the brake. Remember if you're in high and want to stop the pedal has to be pressed half way forward. If you're in low and you want to stop release the pedal half way. If you get confused or can't find neutral with the clutch pedal don't freak out. Just close the throttle and pull the hand brake lever back then the transmission is in neutral and you can stop with either the brake pedal or the brake lever. To downshift on a hill close the throttle and push the clutch into neutral. Allow the speed to drop off a little to about the speed where you shift into high. Now give the engine a little gas and push the pedal down into low. Hold the pedal down firmly when driving in low otherwise the band will rapidly wear out. To reverse pull the brake lever back so that it's in the middle and press the center pedal.

I know this sounds very complicated but, once you've driven it around for a little while it will become second nature. Be very careful and use the handbrake lever to stop the truck in case of an emergency.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Smith on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 09:37 pm:

Matt, Nice truck! Fun to see the pictures. Check to make sure you rear leafs are up all the way in the rear cross member. It may just be the picture but the shackles appear to have no movement left as it sits. They need some room to "grow" as they flatten. I actually question whether they flex at all to be honest, but if the do they need some space. Again, nice well done TT door slammer. Enjoy ts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 09:59 pm:

Matt,
Fabulous looking truck, and with some very cool aftermarket stuff on it. I hope others will chime in here and repeat & confirm what I'm about to post.
I would NOT drive the truck on the road until 3 things are fixed.
1)Repair the missing auxiliary brakes. With the neat transmissions set up you have, you NEED auxiliary brakes. You can easily get in neutral with those transmissions and have NO brakes as the Ford brake is in the engine transmission. This can be very bad for you, your Truck and whatever it uses to stop itself. In modern operator's manual parlance this would not be "Caution" or "Warning" it would be "DANGER!"
2) Fix the broken engine mount arm or arms (I can only see the one that is obviously missing). This can be done by getting an accessory "belly belt" although IMHO, that's a temporary fix. Letting the engine and transmission weight be supported by the Muncie mount is putting a strain on the pan and likely putting the 4th main out of alignment with the crankshaft. This WILL result in a 'two-piece' crankshaft (broken crank) eventually.
3) As noted by Tim, something isn't right about the rear springs and shackles. They should look like the ones on Erik's truck. If you load down the truck like it is, it will strain the back axle.
Now none of the above is going to be expensive, nor likely put you in a long repair period (Well, the brake parts MIGHT be a little pricey, but much cheaper than fixing stuff after an accident.). And, you'll learn more about your truck doing it! Win-win!!
Looks great, you'll have decades of fun with that truck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 10:02 pm:

Matt

You can put all of those pictures in one post. No need to make separate posts. When you do that many shots and you preview them, it may look like they will not show, but they will.

Very nice truck!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 10:24 pm:

Maybe, his springs are just weak. I didn't notice it before but, it looks like pretty much the entire arm has been broken off. That's kinda unusual. An arm like this should solve the problem as long as the rivets in the pan aren't leaking oil out. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/141644.html?1274216057

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Thursday, July 07, 2016 - 11:00 am:

Matt,
Congrats on acquiring a very nice looking and extremely capable truck. I, too, have a TT C cab with a Ruckstell and Warford auxillary transmission. Been driving it for decades without any auxillary rear brakes. It just takes a learned technique. Don't know for sure but I'd bet that most TTs with auxillary transmissions back in the day didn't have these auxillary rear drum brakes. Your lined emergency. brake shoes should quickly stop your truck. However, that said, the biggest difference in our two geographies is I'm
a flatlander and you're not. Therefore I'd also recommend you get the auxillary rear brakes.
And another thing: when you ultimately join a Model T club and go on tours - don't try to keep up with the cars. Their ring/pinion ratio was originally 3.63/1 and your TT was either 7.16/1 or 5.25/1. So, even with your Muncie overdrive, you'll probably go about 35 MPH at rodslinging RPM. Now there'll be braggarts who will come on this thread that'll say their TTs go much faster in overdrive but content yourself with the sure fact that a former two time MTFCA national president blew up 2 engines in his TT trying to keep up with the cars - many of whom will have performance add ons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Scoggins on Friday, July 08, 2016 - 11:24 pm:

Following up to say thanks. The feedback has given me things to look at and provided some much needed advice. I did find the Rocky Mountain brakes and have ordered books. I am sure I will have more questions though and look forward to your help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, July 09, 2016 - 10:09 am:

George -- You are correct that back in the day many of the TTs and for that matter T's with auxiliary transmissions and/or Ruckstell rear axles did not have accessory brakes installed. I remember my Dad telling the story about riding with his Uncle in a TT back in the early 1930's. They were loaded and going down a steep hill on a long dirt road. The uncle tried to down shift the aux transmission to help "brake" the truck. He missed the down shift and when he tried to get it back in the higher gear the truck was already going to fast for that gear. Dad's eye would still get big as he told of going faster and faster towards the cross road intersection at the bottom of the hill. Good news -- no side traffic. They coasted for a short while until the TT slowed down enough to get the aux transmission back into high gear. Emergency brake? Knowing how some of the Ts were maintained during the depression, I suspect that any brake linings had long been gone from the emergency brake shoes.

Matt -- a belated welcome aboard. Please see the safety item list at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/576808.html second entry on that posting. As noted earlier, the rear axle is different in the Ton Truck from the car -- but most of the other items will still apply.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see where anyone recommended you join the local Model T chapter near you. (Ok - I didn't read all the postings...but I did search on "local" and "chapter.") The local folks can be a wealth of information.

For example if your water pump is leaking - it can just be removed and replaced with the proper inlet etc. After car #2500 back in 1909 none of the other Model Ts came from the factory with a water pump. They were usually added later by an owner etc. Or based on how nice the truck looks in the photo -- I would say there is a good chance you may only need to tighten up the "packing nut" on the water pump just a little and that will solve your water pump leak for a short while. And then it will need to be tightened just a little to stop the new leak. That process repeats itself forever. (That assumes that a leak is what the problem is. You didn't say exactly what problem it had. If the shaft doesn't turn -- sometimes someone tightened the "packing nut" too tight - and it just needs to be loosened. Or it may need packing (available from vendors see: https://www.modeltford.com/item/3921PK.aspx )

Any way the local clubs are listed at: See:http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 They can be a real source of encouragement and help you as you learn to maintain the car.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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