Warford support bracket design considerations?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Warford support bracket design considerations?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:12 pm:

I'm looking ahead to the mounting of my new old cast iron Warford under/overdrive in my '24 Speedster. I want to incorporate sound design principles for my bracketry, doing it right and only once!

Various forum threads and supplier catalogs illustrate brackets that either support or suspend, some attach rigidly to the transmission, others support the transmission on a spring or rubber pad, some mount to the top of the frame, others to the bottom, and so on.

My thoughts at this stage are a bracket that cradles the rear of the transmission at exactly the right height (in line with the four crankshaft bearings), sitting on a firm rubber pad but not attached.

I welcome all suggestions and photos etc. It would be a good resource for future installations to have this more-or-less sorted out now. After all, we Model T guys can generally reach a consensus on almost anything, right??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Otto on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 01:35 pm:

I'm personally going to hang mine from the top. That's how it was done in the TT's. I believe it should work fine in my car chassis. However I will not be using the Warford TT cross brace. The back of the Warford would be pointing up. I'll just make my own brace.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 03:45 pm:

chris!if you use the cross member that comes with the trans it will work just fine it mounts on top of the frame & the top of the trans. the center line of the crank & the top of the frame are in line. same on car or truck. maybe you have the worng brace. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 04:03 pm:

Here is the complete mounting bracket you need. The bracket itself is more common at $100. The clamp plates are somewhat rare. I have drawings of the components.
mounting bracket
clamp


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 04:09 pm:

Unfortunately what I previous posted/showed was the installation for a TT. For a speedster/passenger car it is necessary to mount the bracket under the frame to compensate for the difference in frame height. For this I can provide some photos and I also have a modified TT bracket for mounting on a car frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 04:14 pm:

Thanks for the comments thus far.

John, I would appreciate seeing those photos etc. re mounting on a car frame.

Charley, I didn't get a brace/cross-member with the transmission... maybe the vendor forgot to put it in the box??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 04:23 pm:

hummmm! maybe the vendor needs it for his 1915 form a truck!!!!!!!!! i can see what it will cost to make at my fabricators he has a big plasmcuter computer opp. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 04:36 pm:

i may be old!! but if you drop trams you will have to drop the motor to??????????????? charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:10 pm:

John McGinnis - By all means,....please show whatever photos you have, and also, the info ref "modified TT bracket for mounting on car frame".

I bought a very nice '26 Touring that already has a cast iron Warford installed which just "hangs" out behind with no support. The original owner and installer of the Warford (now deceased) told me (and I strongly agree) that he felt that the Warford needed some sort of additional support, but was not sure how to accomplish this. In the meantime, I have acquired the TT cross brace, and a nice pair of the very "rare" (and hence EXPENSIVE) original clamp plates & bolts.

HOWEVER,......I'm pretty sure this is not going to work on the '26 touring as it appears that if installed as you would on a TT with the deeper, or LOWER bottom of the frame channel, with the T Touring, the top of the cross brace will interfere with the underside of the floor of the car. In other words, it looks like the only way to make it work on the T car, would be to cut a hole in the floor (which I certainly won't be doing) or mount the cross brace to the bottom of the tourings frame by lowering the cross brace by use of some sort of spacers. That would of course prohibit the use of the very nice original type clamps! (???) And I really don't think the cross brace should be bolted to the bottom of the frame rails with spacers, because that would not afford the flexibility of the clamps, which I believe is their very important main feature!

Very disappointed that it appears I will not be able to use the original proper cross brace and clamps,......dang!!!

Again, any "help" with this problem would be very greatly appreciated,.....harold

Anyway, any "light" you could "shed" on this problem would certainly be appreciated,.....thanx in advance,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 05:49 pm:

Here are photos of a standard Warford TT bracket mounted under the frame of a 1926 Roadster. I had to extend the length of the bracket 1 1/2 inch and drill holes for custom U bolts. It seems to provide enough flexibility ....been like this for 40 years. I also have a modified TT bracket for mounting above the lower frame rail on a passenger car...but no photo at the moment.

bracket
bracket


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

The cast iron Warford should be supported by a rigid crossmember to the frame. It needs no rubber pads or springs for flexibility because it has a U joint between it and the T engine, so no stress is transferred to the crankcase when the frame twists and bends. It doesn't even have to be perfectly in line with the crankshaft, many are at some angle. Again, the U joint takes care of this. You can make your own crossmember to use in a car frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, July 06, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

chris. just get the drawings from john and make your owen fit the way you want, wont be a problem with your skill after all it is a speedster they were done your way. ok i am tired of this.ha.ha. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Friday, July 08, 2016 - 02:48 pm:

Included are photos of a bracket for a passenger car/speedster. It is a modification of the standard cast iron Warford TT bracket where the standard bracket is cut and a section of channel is welded on. Although this bracket shown isn't beautiful, it is functional.
bracket
BRACKET


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Friday, July 08, 2016 - 10:39 pm:

Thanks John, that is helpful.


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