Does the Torpedo Carburetor control rod dash plate have two mounting holes , four or both? Does anyone have a photo? Thanks, Glen
Surely someone has a torpedo!
Four I believe.
Dave, Thanks for posting but that looks just like one of our normal 1911-12 control rods. The torpedo has more of an angle to the rod.
Glen, go to HCCA.org. There is a Torpedo for sale on there. I copied the photo from that advertisement
Here is another.
The car was once owned by Fred Lau.
: ^ )
Here is another.
The car was once owned by Fred Lau. It is hard to tell if the escutcheon is cast brass or steel.
In June 1911 it was changed from cast brass to cast steel. In July 1911 it was changed to stamped steel.
: ^ )
Those all look just like our 1911-12 control rods. I thought that they had a deeper angle due to the longer hoods.
The lower photo is a touring car. The angle might be a little different on a torpedo, but if it is after July, it wouldn't make much difference because the escutcheon is stamped.
On the earlier cast brass (and iron) brackets, the long hole would be drilled at the same angle as the hole in the firewall.
It looks like touring were 20-21 degrees and, "at a larger angle for the 1911 Torpedo."
While the right picture is here,would anyone have an old junk column with just the bottom flange on it?If so I would be interested in buying it.My son needs one for his 1911 torpedo.
My 11 open runabout knob bracket has 2 screws but the angle is not as steep as the ones shown.
Brass or steel bracket?
: ^ )
Guys, I'm talking about a torpedo, not a runabout. The hood is two inches longer which requires a different angle for the Carburetor Control Bezel.
Royce is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who has one.
The 1911 Open Runabout referenced above is built using the same special hardware as a Torpedo including the two inch longer hood and the same carb control rod assembly.
The bracket evolved from cast polished brass and 4 screws to cast polished brass and 2 screws to polished cast IRON AND 2 screws to a stamped steel that was formed out and still held with 2 screws to finally just a flat oval plate with 2 screws but it then also had some minor changes to that flat oval shaped one.
Glen the angle change is very slight being 20 degrees for the "standard" cars and 26 degrees for the 1911 Torpedo and Open Runabout. It is such a steep angle and the hole in the wood dash being 1/2" in diameter through the dash makes it possible to make up the 6 degrees without much effort. I don't think they made a separate casting for the torpedo. A quick hit on a belt sander to the back surface of the casting and you have a 26 degree bracket. Most of the cast brackets that I have seen are loose enough to work without any modification and I suspect Ford didn't modify them.
The bezel shown in the last picture is like one we are trying to make. I was told it was 1913. Maybe it is earlier. It is stamped steel and the control rod angle can be changed because the rod is not contained like with the earlier bezels. If this was the type used on the torpedo let me know.
Glen that is the formed steel bracket. That was standard issue in 1912 and is NOT a special item on the Torpedo or Open Runabout. It probably continued into 1913. I have a rather late 1912 Running gear that is unrestored and rather complete and it has that one on it. Many of the torpedo parts were simply rebent or modified "regular" 1911 issue model T parts. The rear butterfly fender brackets were the exact same forging as the 1910 rear butterfly brackets but just bent differently. The clutch and brake pedals are the same standard forgings as 1910 and early 1911 pedals but just bent differently. Hand brake handle was same handle just bent differently... Earliest windshield to spacer board brackets were touring car windshield brackets that had the rear top part clipped off but that proved a disaster when the W/S fell off into the drivers lap when a bump was hit. That resulted in an emergency change that added a center bracket to hold the windshield down on the spacer board with 3 clips then total. 2 months later they changed the outboard clips to be different and then did away with the center windshield "stop gap" measure.
My research showed the rod extends about 2 inches above the firewall bracket which is 2 screw by early 1911. This made it easier to reach for the driver due to the 6 inches of extra leg room
John, Can I assume that the cast or stamped steel plates of 1912-13 were not used on the 1911-12 torpedo. This seems odd since they are the only ones that you can change the angle of the rod in.
I should have said the only early ones.
Here is what we are trying to make. This is a sample.
It looks pretty good. Here's mine:
Lang's has one:
Info from the encyclopedia:
On July 27, 1911 it was changed to a pressed steel stamping that was black enameled and made from hood support scrap.
There is no release data from late 1911 until 1916 but a note from a drawing on November 20, 1916 shows this part to be a flat oval plate (a true ellipse at this time), 16 gauge, black enameled and made from hood support scrap. On October 3, 1916 the plate was made from fender scrap.
I suspect the flat oval plate began around 1914 or 1915.
I have "heard" that the knob was attached to the rod with a riveted pin. The story goes, "The only time a cotter pin was used was if it had been removed and replaced."
Does anybody know?
John- How is the knob attached to the rod on your unrestored late 1912 running gear?
: ^ )
Mine dose t look like any of those. It's brass and elongated below the screws. 2 screws hold it on the knob looks the same and I know it's original for an 11 open runabout. I seen a torpedo at a car show that had the same one as mine but I don't know if his was original. Mine came out of a collection where it had sat for 60 some years and sat in another for collection for the rest of its life till a couple of years ago so I'm sure it's original for an open runabout. Hope this helps.
The knob on mine is attached with a pin
Richard, Can you post a picture of your plate? Now one hear seems to really know what is correct.
Photos I have of two torpedo dashes.
May 1911 torpedo:
Glen. I can't get photos to load. To old school I guess.
Glen mine looks just like the pik sent by Kieth Townsend. I just went out and looked and it is cast brass and the finish is a little rough. I'm sure it could be polished but that's the way it came and I was afraid I'd break it takeing it out. If you need it real badso you can reproduce it I'll pull it and send it to you. I'll want it back. God knows you helped enough people in this sport.
Richard, Is yours an original 1911 Torpedo? If so, yes I would greatly appreciate borrowing it. I would be sure to get it right back to you. Thanks Glen
It's an original 1911 open runabout.
Glen. You may know of this car it came out of the Carl Bergman collection out of your neck of the woods. He was in the San Bernadino valley area. (Spelling?) I can't imagine it being any different than the Torpedo but the one I looked at in a Texas car show was stamped brass was a 1912. I've never seen another open runabout at any of the other car shows except a kit car. I'll see if I can get a photo e-mailed to you.
Thank you Richard, all help is appreciated. Glen
Bracket is on the way. Mailed today. Good luck and I hope this works.
Richards bracket is the same shape and angle as the standard Ford bracket for 1911-12 with 2 holes.