Hayes 21" wire wheels - unusual variation

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Hayes 21" wire wheels - unusual variation
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Tuesday, July 12, 2016 - 08:33 pm:

Hi all. The photos below show a pair of Hayes 21" rear wheels. They are 48 spoke and large drum. That's a combination I haven't seen before. Normally small drum Hayes wheels are 48 spoke and large drum Hayes wheels are 36 spoke.





There was a thread on some 48 spoke large drum rears (here), but they were clearly modified (stock Ford 1926-27 wood wheel drums laced into 48 spoke wheels). The ones in the pictures above are different. The drums don't have the bolt pattern for stock Ford wood or wire wheels. The felloes are also strange. They don't have the return on the outside edge and in this respect they are like the 36 spoke felloes.

If they are modified wheels they are well done, but that doesn't explain where the drums came from. Everything looks factory done to me.

Was there a transitional style? Any ideas?

Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Tuesday, July 12, 2016 - 08:38 pm:

Forgot to mention - note also that the outside spokes don't "cross over" as much as the normal Hayes 48 spoke and 36 spoke pattern.

Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Tuesday, July 12, 2016 - 09:30 pm:

I would think the 30 x 3 1/2 with large drum would be the really unusual ones.

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 12:27 am:

There is one obvious advantage with those wheels Andrew. They should take the standard Ford 21" split rim, so the buyer could use the rims and tyres from his 21"wooden wheels. The Hayes 21" split rims are scarce.

Interesting that the felloe shows two valve stem holes, the one on the left in the standard position, the one on the right NOT in the usual position to take a Chev rim.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 11:36 am:

Andrew. Looking for a matching pair of fronts? If not would you consider selling me yours so I may have a set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 06:23 pm:

Don't know if these are Hayes, but they do have the large drum.

The original photo is in the collection of the Minnesota Historical Society and identified as, "Ed Killmer in Automobile. Osseo." Osseo is about ten miles northwest of Minneapolis.

http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/display.php?irn=10789193&return=brand=cms

http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/largerimage.php?irn=10154102&catirn=10789193&return=brand=cms

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 07:03 pm:

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Layden - thanks. I see them listed there now as (I presume) 1EJ200. I agree - 1EG200 would be rarer still.

Allan - that makes it easier to find rims for them. Are the non Hayes 21" rims all interchangeable? I have a Kelsey rim which seems to fit but is out of round so its hard to tell whether it would tighten down securely.

Jerome - sorry they are part of a set.

Erik - they are Hayes wheels in the picture you posted. They appear to be the large drum wheels with 36 spokes.

Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Victor Bloxsome on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 08:04 pm:

Andrew ,
Here is my version , 48 spoke 21 inch ;
The drums and hubs are wood spoke 6 hole , secured with 10 mm x 20 tpi studs and nuts reversed ; the neck diameter reduced to accept the outer spoke section parted off from Hayes Chev or Overland front hub ( thicker than T which narrows out below the outer bearing area ) , light press fit then welded and trimmed . Then the drum drilled for spokes to the same pattern as small drum rears.
Felloes courtesy of yourself from front wheels in the past .
I am in the process of repeating the same with big drum 30x3-1/2 rears , posting shortly .

Victor .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Holman on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 01:04 pm:

Any one have a good set of Hayes rear hubs they would part with. I have an extra set of front hub for trade toward the rears + $ or whatever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 - 08:29 am:

Dan, if you can't find rear hubs, Royce has a car which his dad had fitted with modified front wheels at the back. I have new castings for the hubs, but the brake drums are made of unobtainium.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Holman on Monday, July 25, 2016 - 12:45 pm:

Allen, I been told that the large front hubs could be altered to fit the rear. I think the original spoke holes were used and a brake drum attached to the back side of the hub somehow. Any pictures out there? The rears are being reproduced and probably the way to go.


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