Tire questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Tire questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 11:46 pm:

My1917 roadster project appears to have 30x3 1/2" tires on the front and 30x3" on the rear. Is there a way to verify the rim sizes?
They are all non-demountable wood fellows.
If the rims are correct, should i consider transferring the hubs so
The 30x3 1/2 are on the rear and 30x3 on the front ?
Thanks for advice in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 12:17 am:

A 30 x 3 rim is 25", and 30 x 3 is 24".

So much weird stuff has been done to these cars in the past hundred years that nothing surprises me. Rims switched between front and back is just one more weird thing. Whether you exchange the hubs depends on how much work and dough you want to expend. Most people won't notice. As Dude Lester says in Tobacco Road, "It don't hurt the runnin' of it none.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 07:49 am:

I believe your tire sizes are backwards...the
3 1/2" go on the rear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 08:21 am:

Should I be able to just unbolt the hubs and swap them or is there more to it? Also if i measure the diameter of the wooden part I should see the different diameter?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 12:18 pm:

Yes, you can swap the hubs between wheels. Not a big deal.

The amount of difficulty depends on how tight the spokes are against the hub.

If you have 30 x 3 wheels with rear hubs in them, somebody obviously already made the switch so it shouldn't be too hard remove them. Just make sure your spokes are well supported and carefully tap out hubs out with a block of wood and a hammer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 12:35 pm:

My 1914 Roadster has 30 X 3 on the front, 30 X 3 1/2 on the rear. I believe this is correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 01:16 pm:

Assuming that all the wheels are in good shape, it seems to me that it would just make more sense to leave the wheels alone and just dismount the tires and swap them front-to-rear. Why disturb solid wheels when you don't have to,....???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 01:19 pm:

Oh,....just re-read Steve Jelf's post above,....didn't realize the inch difference in rim diameter!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 01:41 pm:

Based on what was originally posted, there are two possible scenarios:

- The wheels are in their correct positions but they have the wrong size tires mounted on them.

- The wheels have the correct tires but are in the wrong position: the front wheels are in the rear and the rear wheels are in the front. This would have involved swapping hubs.

From the factory, a 1917 Ford has 30 x 3 wheels (24" wheels) in front and 30 x 3.5 wheels (23" wheels) in the back.

If you think the wheels are in their correct position but they just have the wrong size tires mounted on them, be aware of the following:

Mounting a 30 x 3 tire on a 23" wheel really doesn't work - the inside diameter of the tire is too large for the rim. The tire will easily slip onto the rim.

Some folks have stretched a 30 x 3.5 tire to fit a 24" front wheel.

If the above is the case, one would think that the person who installed the tires would have realized that they didn't do it correctly because two tires would have slipped right on and two tires would have been a real bitch to install.

If you think this is a case of the wheels being swapped front to back, swapping the hubs so they are in the correct wheels is not a big deal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 03:13 pm:

So, if I measure the diameter of the wooden part I should see the different diameter ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 03:53 pm:

Yes. One inch.

30 x 3:





30 x 3:





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 04:03 pm:

Steve,
Thanks for the help and clearing up this question. I will check the wheels tonight and see what my next steps are......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Thursday, July 14, 2016 - 08:45 pm:

I did a quick measurement and got 24"" front and rear
I will have to look closer as the 30x3 on the rear seem to fit as good as the 30x 31/2 that are on front.
This is not over yet.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 03:54 pm:

Can it be that i have 30x3 on 30x31/2 wheels?
They seem to fit ok and hold air


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 04:09 pm:

I vaguely recall a story in one of the back issues of the Vintage Ford about folks mounting 30x3 tires onto 30x3 1/2 wheels back in the day because the 30x3 tires were a little less expensive.

Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's been done in the past. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 04:44 pm:

Mounting a 30 x 3 tire on a 30 x 3.5 rim really doesn't work because the inner diameter of the tire is one inch greater than the rim. The tire will be loose on the rim and if they don't peel off on their own while driving down the road, the inner tube valve stems most likely will get sheared.

You originally posted your "project appears to have 30x3 1/2" tires on the front and 30x3" on the rear." The tire size should be printed right on the sidewalls of the tires.

Please take photos and post them and we can probably tell you exactly what your situation is in very short order.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 07:18 pm:

It is figured out- the rear rims are 23" and had 30x3" tires

Rear tire

Rim measurement


Front tire



Front rim measurement


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Duffy on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 07:22 pm:

The rear tires came right off by hand so i guess it's good I didn't take it out on the road
:-(
My next step is to see if anyone wants to trade 2 wards riverside 30x3 for two 30x 3 1/2

Thanks for the input


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 08:06 pm:

I once worked on a car that had 30x3-1/2s on 30x3 rims! Got them off, on a warm day and let them sit a while before putting them on the right rims--went on easy though! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 09:52 pm:

I have a 30 x 3 1/2 on a 31 x 4 rim and no problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 10:20 pm:

That's right Dave, as both tires fit on a 23" rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

Dave:

The inner diameter of a 30 x 3.5 tire and a 31 x 4 tire are exactly the same:

30" - (2 x 3.5") = 23"

31" - (2 x 4") = 23"

In other words, a 30 x 3.5 rim and a 31 x 4 rim are both 23 inch diameter rims.

I believe that all the 30 x 3.5 tires sold today are oversize and closer to 31 inches outer diameter so the tires are actually 31 x 4.

All the tires in the photo below are 30 x 3.5 - the first two are oversize and the second two are true, 30 inch tires. Notice the difference.

From left to right:

- 1930s or earlier Wards Riverside "blem" or "second" - slight defect in the bead so the Wards Riverside name was ground off - oversize - 31" O.D.

- 1950 Wards Riverside -oversize - 31" O.D., purchased new by my father

- 1920s Trailblazer Cord - true 30 inch O.D.

- 1920s/1930s Goodyear - true 30 inch O.D.

1


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