Powerless

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Powerless
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 10:42 pm:

Hey I finally got my title and plates for roadster. First run it overheated. Flushed radiator and block and drove about 1 1/2 miles and was fine.it sat for a long time before I got it. New plugs, fan belt, carb adjusting rod, and manifold . Adjusted low band because I thought it was slipping , it was. It's better now. Runs smooth at idle and on road but no power. Can't run in high gear on even a slight hill without bogging down. Tried adjusting carb and spark advance and nothing helps. Need the experts advice . Could it be the float in carb out of adjustment? Could it be coils not adjusted right? I cleaned and set points on bench . Would that reduce power? I'm new to T world . Also I looked in radiator and there is a flat piece of metal loose in top over tubes. I can move it around with a screw driver. Can anybody explain this? Seems like its blocking tubes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 10:51 pm:

If you adjust the low band too tight it drags in high gear causing the symptoms that you describe. The low band should engage with the pedal absolutely on the floor, or as close to that as you can get.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 11:06 pm:

That loose plate is the baffle that keeps the water from going out the top--IF IT'S LOOSE it can cause overheating! Maybe that's your overheating problem?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 11:14 pm:

Can it be repaired


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 11:35 pm:

I only adjusted low band 1/2 turn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Friday, July 15, 2016 - 11:48 pm:

Dallas, did it bog in high gear before you made the adjustments, or is this something new after? It would also be helpful to know what you are running for a carb, and what you did exactly as far as setting the points on the coils. No such thing as too much information here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 12:37 am:

Dallas,
Yes, but you'll have to find a good radiator shop or a fellow hobbyist who is clever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 02:06 am:

I've had two radiators with loose top baffles and they never caused a problem and I drive my T quite a bit. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 07:47 am:

Dallas, Have you checked the rear brakes? You mentioned that it has sat for a long time and maybe the rear shoes are dragging. Raise the rear end and see if the wheels are free when car is in neutral. I had this problem when I first got my 26. My car had sat for 12 years in a garage. This same problem would lead you to think the clutch needed adjusted. Just a thought. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 08:00 am:

Rear brakes may be it. They don't spin free when raised. I guess I'll start there. Have to take 41 for front end alignment this morning then I'll check out brakes on T. The high gear problem was before I adjusted low band. Running ford NH carb. Thanks to all , I'll let you know later today my results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 08:42 am:

Dallas, rear brakes- simply drive the car 1/4 mile. Stop. Feel the rear brake drums. If cool, look somewhere else for your problem. If warm, then they may need some adjustment.

You say that you are new to the Model T world. Maybe you are expecting too much from a car with only 20hp, and a 2 speed planetary transmission.

Try this- using a GPS of some sort- in low gear- accelerate to 12 mph, then shift to high. Even at 12 mph there will be some light bucking but as your speed picks up the engine will smooth out. If it doesn't, then there is a problem. Note if you hears backfiring and whether the noise is coming from the carburetor or the exhaust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 08:55 am:

John D. has a point. When you've been driving modern cars all of your life there is a learning curve for driving a Model T.

Even with everything in working order, brakes, engine and transmission T's are not a 'go fast car'

They don't accelerate quickly or have real brakes like most of us today are use to.

Good luck and take your time. Have fun learning how people drove in a slower moving world way back when!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 10:06 am:

My 21,sat for a while, old gas tank that I cleaned, did fine before it sat. I guess the fresh gas loosened up more gunk in the tank. I drove to my friends house and it wouldn't pull hills in high like before, same hills. I had to drive home in low. I took off the sediment bowl and it was full of gunk at the inlet. It ran fine at idle but couldn't get enough gas to go at speed. I couldn't even get it in high on flat surfaces on the way back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Critchlow on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 11:13 am:

Dallas, I live in Mishawaka, give me a call and you can come to my home and I will let you drive my 26 roadster for comparison. I have only been involved with model t's for 2 years but have learned a lot from this forum. Contact me and we can compare notes. I will send you a PM with my phone #.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 11:53 am:

When you jack up the rear wheels to see if the brakes are too tight, be sure to jack up both wheels. When you turn one wheel forward, the other will turn backward through the differential. If you leave one wheel on the ground, you will be turning the driveshaft which is connected through the clutch to the engine. Even in neutral, there will be a drag if you only jack up one wheel.

Check the timing. When the spark lever is all the way up, the spark should come just after the piston #1 passes top dead center. This is actually true of all 4 pistons. Each piston has two strokes on the exhaust stroke there is no spark when it passes center and on the compression stroke you get spark just after it passes center. So it might take up to two rotations of the crankshaft to get a spark on any particular cylinder. Then as you advance the spark lever (pull down) The spark will come before the piston reaches top dead center. Don't try turning the crank with the ignition switch on and the spark lever down or you might get a broken arm it it starts to run backward and the crank flys around. Always set the spark with the lever up. You might need to bend the rod to get the spark at the right time.

Adjustment of the points is only one adjustment of the coils. There is also a condensor inside each coil and many times the condensor is defective. You should get a strong spark from each coil to fire the spark plugs. If one or more coils does not fire, you will have no power on the corresponding cylinder.

The carburetor adjustment should be made approx 1 1/4 inch counter clockways from the closed position. after you start the engine, fine tune it by turning clockwise until the engine begins to run rough, then counterclockwise until it smooths out. If you turn counterclockwise past that point, the engine will start bucking. Turn it back to the point it smooths out. As the engine warms up, adjust again to find the smoothest adjustment.

I hope you will join a local Model T club and find someone who can look at your car to be sure everything is working. Also can recommend someone who can adjust or rebuild your coils so they are all working at the optimal. It is also good to carry along with you one or two good coils for spare, just in case one of yours starts to act up, you can replace it and continue on your way.

It is one thing to try to explain what to check on this forum, and another to have hands on help so you can see what is going on. I fear that my explanations have been enough to confuse you but not enough for you to understand. It's one thing to say something, but for one without experience the words just go in one ear and out the other. With hands on, you can see, and do the things of which you can only read on this forum. So try to find a local mentor to help you out at first.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 12:07 pm:

Check/set timing: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 05:31 pm:

Wheels off ground . Turns really hard in neutral position.
Turned easier in high position.
I have discovered now that I need a wheel puller.
I need to check bearings and clean and grease everything anyway .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 05:34 pm:

Thanks Mark from Mishawaka . I would like to see your T and compare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 05:37 pm:

This probably doesn't have anything to do with your problem, but has the rear axle ever been rebuilt?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 07:46 pm:

Not that I'm aware of Steve .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 08:07 pm:

http://www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 09:32 pm:

VERY good point Steve, Dallas, you need to take your rear axle apart anyways to put in bronze thrust washers before those original babbitt ones fall apart on you and leave you stranded, or brakeless (if you don't have auxiliary brakes).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 16, 2016 - 09:38 pm:

If you have both wheels off the ground and the parking brake lever is either forward or neutral, the wheels should turn easily. If they are still hard to turn with both raised, your problem is either in the parking brake or within the rear axle assembly. Try taking out the clevis pins from the parking break rods and pushing the rods as far as you can toward the rear of the car. The wheels should turn easily. If they do turn easily with the pins out, but hard when the pins are in, your parking brake is adjusted too tight.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Critchlow on Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 09:19 am:

Dallas, I have a wheel puller that you can use, also have other tools that may be helpful. Did you get the PM I sent you with my contact information? Just give me a call when we might get together sometime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 10:34 am:

I did not get it Mark. I sent you PM


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 04:32 pm:

Ordered books on axle, transmission , and carb rebuilding and restoring . Disassembly and cleaning of front hubs complete.
Ordered a couple bearings and seals. During disassembly I found a piece of an aluminum coke can as a shim under outer bearing race. It was wrapped about 1 1/2 times. Is it normal to shim this or is hub bad ?
I prefer Pepsi !
I also ordered a rear wheel puller. Had offer to use one from a super nice guy Mark Critchlow . Thanks Mark but I will probably need it again. Also took the advice on the book on rebuilding rear axle.
Thanks to all for advice and tips! I'll keep all posted on progress


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 05:38 pm:

If you have the standard wire spoke wheels on the 26, the hubs are hard to find and expensive. In that case the shim will work if the bearing race is perfectly centered. Also carefully inspect the hub to be sure it is not cracked in the bearing location. On the wood spoke wheels, the hubs are easy to find and I would recommend replacing it with a better one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 17, 2016 - 05:51 pm:

A wheel removal trick that sometimes works if you don't have a puller is to loosen the nut a couple of turns, put the cotter pin back in, and drive around the block. The wheel should loosen up so you can pull it off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:52 pm:

Wheel puller and bearings arrived from Langs. hubs are off and what a sticky mess with old axle grease. Cleaned everything in gas. Brake lining looks good but will they be ok after gasoline bath ? Definatlly need seals. Are theNeoprene outer grease seals from langs what I want?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 12:00 am:

These will keep rear axle oil from leaking to your brakes if the axle shafts are good. https://www.modeltford.com/item/2511AS.aspx

For outer seals, the original type felt washers are sufficient.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 07:38 am:

Not sure the gasoline cleaning is enough for the lining - i got some oil mixed grease on mine, and I burned the grease off with a torch.. Not safe, so if you try, take the lining off from the car, be in a safe fire proof area and have sufficient fire repellant equipment to stop any spreading of the flames.

Now my emergency brake works fine again :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 09:20 am:

Roger , I like fire. I've been firefighter for 30+ years.
The shoes are off the truck so I can try that. Safely!
Thanks Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 10:10 am:

I usually agree with Roger, but I dislike the fire idea. Try a wash in lacquer thinner. Put them in a closed container with some thinner and shake it up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 10:49 am:

Dallas, I just had to clean up some brake shoes from a seal leak. I use brake parts cleaner. It really gets the oil and grease out and leaves no residue. Just do it outside. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 07:58 pm:

Brake Kleen spray is ideal for degreasing the brake parts. Get the red can, the green can stuff is useless. Available at any auto part store.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 09:05 pm:

Rebuild is in order for rear axle . The axle housing cap on passenger side has a huge hole in it as opposed to driver side that is about the diameter of axle shaft. Are the rear axles all the same?
I have an extra rear axle that I can scavenge parts from. It was a farmers trailer and sat in a barn for ever. We burnt the barn for his son and I rescued it many years before I adopted a T.
Can't stand to see the old stuff go. Once it's gone it's gone forever . A little off topic
This model T thing is addictive , I seem to spend a lot of time looking for parts or thinking about parts .
Can't wait to roll down the blacktop


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 11:05 am:

I pulled rear outer bearings from rear axle and they seem pretty sloppy to me. Is the modern outer rear axle bearing kit the way to go?
If I use this , can I use original style axle caps with felt with no leaking or should I get the neoprene outer grease seals?
I don't see any wear on axle shaft around outer bearing.
If I install modern bearings can I reuse this stuff for a complete rebuild this fall.
I need to order a sleeve puller unless someone has a suggestion to get them out.
Back to original problem ( no power ) the axle seams to turn free with brake shoes removed and sticky mess cleaned off.
New outer bearings and seals should get me through summer.
Would like to drive it a little this summer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison- PA on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 01:13 pm:

It's interesting that no one suggested checking compression.


Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 03:51 pm:

Update .
Some new bearings in the front, good used bearing for the rear. Thanks to Andy Loso! New seals to stop brakes from getting covered in grease. The wheels all turn free.
Put about 40 miles of smiles and waves on it last weekend.
When shifting from low to high it shuttered a little at 1st but seams to be getting worse. It sat for unknown amount of time before I got it and put it to work hauling my smiling face down the road. I got new band material with it when I bought truck and all rivets. I guess my question is is this normal for just loose bands .will try adjustment this weekend and pull inspection cover , like I know what to look for. On e it's in high gear it doesn't seem to slip even up hill , just going in
Suggestions needed as this is new to me. By the way it has 22 motor and transmition


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 05:10 pm:

Hard to tell what's wrong - if anything. Are there any T:ers close by that can have a ride and feel how it reacts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Thursday, August 18, 2016 - 09:29 pm:

I haven't read if you have a free neutral. If you have your low band too tight, the clutch will begin to engage before the band is loose enough. That can cause shuddering and it won't want to take off in high. Adjust your low band like Mr. Royce suggested with the pedal almost to the floor, or as loose as you can without it slipping. With your parking brake handle straight up or slightly forward you should be able to push the car without the engine turning over or the brakes dragging. Remember, when you take off in low or are driving in low, to push hard on the pedal to keep from slipping the band.

(Message edited by Tt bud on August 18, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, August 19, 2016 - 06:30 am:

You need to establish a good starting point Dallas. Get a set of properly rebuilt coils from any number of fellows here. This is one place where just any old coil won't do - crap coils give crap performance, and every un-rebuilt coil is crap. Check the wiring to the timer and then check the timer itself. Is the brush okay? Is the contact surface ok? Is it properly centered to the camshaft? Is the linkage nice and tight from the timer to the spark advance rod, and to the spark lever? Once you have gone thru the ignition then you can focus on carb & manifolds and driveline.

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 01:42 pm:

Thanks Dennis
Adjusted low pedal and learned to throttle back when going in high
A lot better. Put about 20 miles on this morning seems to be running good and not getting hot
This winter the rear end rebuild and some new gasgets for engine are in order. Thanks to all who gave advice, not sure what I would do without it.


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