1915/1917 Speedster Project- Newbie alert

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 1915/1917 Speedster Project- Newbie alert
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 05:47 pm:

Hi all, after much contemplating and agony, I have decided to purchase/ acquire my first model T. Fun fact- Im trading a running driving 1964 corvair monza sedan for it. My family thinks I'm a little crazy, and maybe I am.

Anyway, here are the details:

The car currently has seats, a gas tank, wood firewall, 4 decent wood wheels, engine, trans, rear axle, hood, and honeycomb radiator. The engine number is supposedly illegible, but I will be trying to clean it and get a number. If I cannot retrieve the number, the seller is including a title/ number for a 1917 that I can stamp the engine and frame with, but thats only if I can't recover and re-stamp the original engine number.

The plan is as follows:
Try and recover engine number
Get the engine running as is with the "custom" header and carb- rebuilt coils, new wiring, clean gas tank, etc...
New tires, tubes, refinish wheels
Test drive- check bands and replace if needed- make any other adjustments or repairs
Begin completely overhauling the body- Most likely a metal vanderbuilt cup racer look with a single seat
Upgrade mechanicals- race cam, high compression head, rocky mountain brakes, 3:1 rear end ratio, water pump, dropped front axle, dropped rear end, possibly a ruckstell or warford transmission if I can find a good used unit

I plan on updating the thread as often as possible with photos and videos... Oh right, and I plan on doing this whole thing on a budget because I'm 16 and my job only pays so much- on that note, if anyone happens to have some good used parts laying around that I could use and would be more affordable than buying new, I would greatly appreciate it.

Can someone please help me ID this carb?
James




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:08 pm:

James,
For what can be seen of the engine in it, it's 1919 or later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:22 pm:

Here are some more pictures




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:30 pm:

James, the carb is flathead Ford V-8. probably around 1952 53 model (because of the V-shaped ring where the air cleaner clamps) Welcome to the hobby. You will find a lot of information from the folks here, Most will be good info and very rarely not so good. But mostly good. A lot of nice people here as well as a few "grumpy old farts" More pictures are needed of what you have so we can give you a better idea of the type and years of parts you have. Most T parts interchange, knowing the years of parts will help find the right parts for your project .... Again Welcome .... have fun and be safe Donnie Brown ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:40 pm:

Coil box mounted on the engine and the upper fan pulley suggest '26/'27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:45 pm:

Interesting front end. The front spring clamp/ engine mount is upside down, and the pan arms are mounted to the bottom flange of the frame. I can't see enough of the whole set up to see what they were trying to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:46 pm:

No hogs head bolts on the block so earlier than 26/27
James, take a photo of the water inlet side of the block, that will give us a casting date, if it's a Ford block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 06:56 pm:

Honestly if I were you I would sell the Corvair and look into getting a more complete/manageable project than this one. There are many older restoration running T's that can be had in the 5-8k area. That's just my 2 cents though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 07:12 pm:

Like Dennis I can not figure out why the engine is below the frame instead of above the frame as it is supposed to be. A good pic of the intake/exhaust side of the engine showing the valve cover will help nail down the years. Is the valve cover one piece or two pieces. It is definatly later than 1919 because of the generator mount and 1925 or before, because of no hogs head bolts on back of block. James, most speedsters are made up from various year model parts, so do not let our discussions about the various parts discourage you. You have what looks like a very good and interesting start to a fun car. Part of the fun is going to be figuring out things about your project. There are some interesting things going on like the down draft V-8 carb for example. That was a common speed trick used by lots of "old guys". There is an "extra" contact bolt of some sort on top of the trans cover/hogs head that I do not have a clue what is for. But it will be interesting to find out what it is for :-) :-). The 26-27 style coil box that is mounted to the engine is also a speedster type of modification. It is just handier to have it on the engine than in the car. With a little bit of research, you should be able to find some T owners in your area. I bet there are some that will be willing to help with parts or just help with the work on the car. Take your time, and have fun. You may just have found a very long and rewarding new hobby ..... have fun and be safe ......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 07:40 pm:

Too bad you aren't closer. I have piles of T parts better than that and I've like the Corvair. But it's a long ways from Montana to Maryland.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 07:41 pm:

Proofread!!! I'd like, not I've like.. Dipstick, can't even type it's so hot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 07:47 pm:

James, I started my T project when I was 15 or 16 with about what you have there except an engine. I don't know how much a Corvair is worth but if you can drive it then it's worth a lot more than what you have pictured. I would try to buy that T chassis outright and keep my Corvair. Don't get in a rush, I know it's hard, but look on Craigslist. About 7 years ago I found what you have there plus extra engines rear ends and various parts,steering columns etc for $500. i saw a fairly complete TT closed cab truck for $500 last year. That is by no means the last one out there. If you start with a chassis like that though you will have fun rebuilding everything and running down parts and have a feeling of accomplishment by doing it yourself plus you will know how everything about how the car works.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 07:51 pm:

Ok... The engine mounts are indeed upside down to lower the hood line and center of gravity.

As Im looking at the car more and more, I'm debating whether its really worth it. The gentleman who has the speedster initially offered me a 1919 TT with a martin-parry wood cab, original demountable rims, and original electric starter. The truck has a clean title and ran about a year ago. Im thinking about going back to this because the title that was supposed to come with the roadster is just a copy, so the legal issues there are really too much for me to deal with...

Here are some pictures of the TT for those who are interested



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:07 pm:

That's a lot of rotten wood to trade for a for a Corvair.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:09 pm:

Save up your money and buy a decent touring or roadster.

You'll be money and time ahead and experience substantially less frustration and headaches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

I'm afraid I agree with Robert. A running 1964 Corvair Monza ought to be able to get you a better T project than either of those. In my opinion, hold out for something more complete, possibly running and with a good title.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:35 pm:

James,

I'm in Maryland right below Baltimore off of Rt 97 we have a pretty active club with the MTFCI Heart of MD T's. Would be happy to help you. Personally I would not do that trade. I've brought a whole lot more for just a few $100.

Feel free to drop me an email through the forum.
Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:39 pm:

James, I'm actually working on getting my grandfather's coupe back into the family and may be looking to sell my chassis and parts to make room for it. I'm about 5 hours from you. I'd start you off much better off than the one you're looking at. Feel free to send me a pm if you're interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 08:59 pm:

James,

Welcome to the Model T hobby. You do NOT have to own a T to join the forum or the club etc. All that is needed is a desire to learn more about the cars.

Is your running and driving Corvair Monsa sedan in decent shape? If so, I agree with what one other poster has already said, I suspect you would be ahead to sell the Corvair outright and use the money to purchase a better start on a Model T.

Have you checked some of the e-bay auctions for the prices Ts & Corvairs have been going for in the condition you are looking at?

For your first T, I would recommend the car chassis over the Ton Truck for most folks. And there are different body styles (speedster, roadster, hack, etc.) The car chassis is easier to work on -- some parts are the same -- but that rear axle on a T is a lot lighter, as is the frame. The T will usually fit in the garage easier, etc. The T is also generally "less slow." And yes, the TT can be made to go faster -- but in general -- if you put the same speed equipment on a T it will perform better than the TT with the same equipment. The TT is a lot better for hauling loads at very slow speeds than the T.

Additionally I would recommend you contact one of the nearest Model T clubs and go for some rides etc. Find out what members may have for sale or know of for sale. There were over 15,000,000 Model Ts produced. There are a lot of them still around. You can purchase a Model T any week of the year. I would recommend you NOT trade a decent car for either of those Ts without first riding in a couple of Ts, and comparing prices.

Some related posting on purchasing a T please see:


Why purchasing a driving Model T is usually a better first purchase:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/174485.html?1291737258

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/142749.html?1274909368

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/16385.html

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/248052.html?1322246281

Again, welcome to the hobby and good luck on finding the right T, at a reasonable price, at the right time.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 09:14 pm:

Can you post a picture of the Corvair? The Ts in the images look pretty rough and may not have the same value as your Corvair.

I am not affiliated with this seller and know nothing about this car, but take a look at what 7,500 can get you.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/661241.html?1469149448

-Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 09:14 pm:

Hey Hap, Ive been up to Owl's Head Transportation museum and ridden and driven their 24(?) touring and thats where this whole obsession started.

The Corvair has 30,155 original miles on it and doesnt have a spot of rust. It runs, drives, and stops great.

My only real issue with getting a running T is that I'm getting rid of the corvair because theres nothing to do on it and I need a car to keep me busy and quench my thirst for tinkering.

Ive just got to ask... He's giving me $650 cash, a set of rebuildable coils, and delivering from Tennessee for me. I don't know if that makes a difference.

According to my math:
Corvair-$4000
minus $650 cash
minus a 550 mile tow ($800+/-)
minus $100 worth of coils
Puts the total of the truck at $2450

Is that a reasonable value of a truck like that with a Martin Parry cab but no bed and an engine that'll run and a good trans and axle?
He had it running last year and drove it around his yard a little.
James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 09:21 pm:

heres a picture of the corvair


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 09:29 pm:

Absolutely not worth $2450


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 09:31 pm:

The TT, not the Corvair


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 09:50 pm:

That truck appears to be much later than 1919. Note the high radiator.

Find a touring or roadster that is closer to home that you can inspect in person.

Also, many if not most antique cars trade hands via word of mouth, not classified ads. Start talking to other Model T enthusiasts in the area and put the word out that you are looking for a Model T.

Be patient and find something good. Buying a piece of crap and being cheap up front is going to cost you a lot of money in the long run.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 08:05 am:

The beauty of a speedster is no matter how complete it is when you get it, you can always fool with it and change things. Neither the car or the TT is barely more than a pile of parts. The corvair should get you a drivable speedster easily. I personally wouldn't pay more than $500 for both the speedster and the TT you have pictured.

Plenty of guys will tell you they started projects with less, but, on a budget and with the things you're interested in doing (going faster) I'd look for a better car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 09:52 am:

James, you said you wanted one to work on. You can buy a good running T and there will always be work to do on it whether you want to or not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 10:16 am:

James, I sent you a PM.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 10:23 am:

Always buy or trade for a running driving car, and that's the name of that tune.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 11:05 am:

Hey Bill, I sent you my email... My phone number is 4434255457 if you want to talk as well.

I think I'm going to do the deal... Yes Im young and stupid but I think even if worse comes to worse, I can part it out for what I'm in it for and break even.

Thanks for all the advice guys... Ill be sure to start a new thread when the project begins.
James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 11:46 am:

That Speedster is worth less than one fourth the value of your running Corvair.

Here is a picture of a genuine drivable 1913 Speedster as purchased with a fresh engine and a Warford transmission we picked up for $3500 with a clear title.

The wheels on your Speedster are questionable. Tires, tubes and boots will cost you $1000, an engine and transmission rebuild will cost you $6500. A radiator is $1000 and so on. Don't jump too quickly . . . . please.


They are out there . . . .


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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 01:02 pm:

James, the world's best Ford mechanics are on this forum. Plus lots of big hearted people who can help you out with things. Please reconsider what these guys are saying. Have some patience. Sell the Corvair. Buy a running T. You will soon have to do some sort of adjustment or repair on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 01:15 pm:

James, Have you heard the expression "If I had known then what I know now, I would have done things differently" Just my opinion but, you really need to heed the advice being offered here. I have made my share of mistakes because I was too hard headed to listen to the experience of others. The other famous quote "A fool and his money are soon parted" I'm thinking "A fool and his NICE Corvair will SOON be parted" Don't be that fool! You would be dumbfounded if I listed the number of cars I let go over the years because it "seemed like a good idea at the time" Trouble is, once they are gone, they are gone! I see your comment about parting it out, that is wishful thinking at best. Believe me, we all know the feeling of seeing and wanting a project so bad, we make unrealistic sacrifices to get it. I have done that simply because I thought there won't be another like this! The truth is, good deals can and do happen. So... bottom line here, as the saying goes, "A picture speaks a thousand words" if you take a good look at the Speedster in Frank's above post, then compare with the 'pile of parts' you are considering. By all means, keep us posted!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 01:32 pm:

I don't agree with Donnie Brown on the carburetor. I don't think it's a flathead V8 Ford. I cannot recall ever coming across a Ford flathead V8 (I know nothing of the V8-60) that didn't have a carburetor without a three-bolt base and the linkage on the left side as viewed from the float bowl end. Yours has the linkage on the right and appears to have a two-bolt base. Maybe a later Ford four-banger or flathead six?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 01:33 pm:

Somebody needs to PM James with a better deal before he makes a big mistake - of course, that could be his master plan all along. :-)

Sell me your nice speedster project or I'll trade my Corvair for this guy's junk! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 01:39 pm:

Got a spare few hundred bucks? Offer the guy that for the speedster, get it home and start restoring the bits that are there. It won't take up much garage space in pieces and will give you lots of time to enjoy driving your Corvair while waiting to get top dollar for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 01:39 pm:

BTW: I also do agree with those who have said that your Corvair is worth far more then what there is of the T speedster. In a weak moment I might go for $500 for it, but I think that I would probably have second thoughts after I got it home.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 02:10 pm:

The speedster is completely out of the question due to a lack of a legitimate engine number or title...

Does everyone really think the TT is really not worth about $2000?
Im seeing ones in similar shape go for that, and I'm seeing most project cars go for around $3500 needing lots of finishing.

Does anyone disagree with this observation?

My master plan was not to have someone send me a better deal- I was just hoping to share the project with you guys.

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 02:24 pm:

Do you see similar TTs actually go for that or do you see them listed for that?

For comparison, the T on my profile page was picked up for $2200 Canadian just two years ago... or was it $1800? Whichever, it needed an awful lot less than the TT you're looking at.

If you're really nuts about that TT get him to throw in the speedster as parts for free. And maybe a thousand bucks cash.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 02:24 pm:

James, the buyer sets the value. Will the seller get the engine running for you again, now, before you buy it? If not, I suggest you walk.

If so, post a link to your video of it so we can see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 02:26 pm:

I think the carb is for a Ford 6 about 1952. Dave in Bellingham, WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 02:56 pm:

James, about six months ago some one in Houston had a 26 or 27 Ton Truck for $2900 on Craigslist. Engine last started a couple of years ago. Highly desirable metal cab with factory bed. It was for sale for a couple of months before some one bought it.
Model T Haven had a pair of26/27 Ton Trucks, running, at the same price. One had an auxiliary transmission.
The point is, they are out there.
Be patient because this hobby is about patience. Ask the guys who spend months or years looking for a widget to further their restoration. Or the guys waiting to get their blocks back from the rebuild shop.
With the rotting wood of that TT, you are just basically buying the running gear and you better have cabinet making skills to put it back together. Don't ask me how I know.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:04 pm:

James,

I think that TT is worth about $1200 - at the most. I've sold a few Corvairs (66 Monza coupe and 65 convertible) - both extremely low mileage, restored. The estimates people have been giving you regarding yours are pretty spot on - I'd ask $5K and settle at $4,500 for your Corvair if it were mine. You could put together a pretty decent speedster for $4,500. I think Tim is correct - I'd try to get the TT and speedster as a package and I would max out at $1800 for that package.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:13 pm:

So since you guys are so adamant that I should be able to find a decent project for around $1500-$2000, can anyone point me towards one on here, eBay, Facebook, CL, or elsewhere? I just am seriously doubting that this stuff is going to be that affordable.

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:18 pm:

He says he has a TT he wants to trade for a Model T pickup, but maybe he'll trade for your Corvair and sell the Corvair to buy a Model T pickup.

Can't hurt to ask! :-)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/660761.html?1469045961


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:23 pm:

Here's another TT project - he said pictures were coming soon, but no follow up. Maybe it sold, or maybe it's still available, can't hurt to call! :-)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/657504.html?1467837218

How am I coming up with these listings? I went to the Classifieds thread, hit ctrl-f, and searched for "TT". You could also search for "speedster" if that is what you would prefer. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:34 pm:

James - there was an ad on here about 1.5 years ago for a completely restored TT running gear. Thing was beautiful - but sadly, was out in California and too far away for me here in MA. Price finally dropped to around $1500 and was bought by another Forum member in TX (I think). They're out there!! Keep checking Craigslist in your area and be patient.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:44 pm:

James, listen to these guys. Your Corvair for either of those T projects is a bad bad trade for you. Give it a week and you'll be amazed at how much better you'll be able to do, either with a running project or a much better starting point.

Another thing to keep in mind -- a speedster and a TT are as different as they can be and are still Model Ts. You've been considering both options, which tells me what you really want is a Model T of some sort, just don't know what type. Another good reason to give it a few days to read up, look at more ads, maybe take a look at a few cars.

Again, your lovely Corvair for either of those Ts is a crummy deal. A great deal for the other guy of course, if he can sleep at night after hosing you so badly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 03:57 pm:

James, using one of those "search all Craigslist" search engines, I found a guy in Tampa who has a bunch of "1915" parts for a speedster project for $2950. I have no connection to the seller.
Also a Ton Truck is too tall to fit thru most standard garage doors. I had to build a second little door over the first to get it into the garage. Keep that in mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 04:04 pm:

Just called the deal off... Im going to sell the corvair and work from
there.

Im not bent on a TT or a speedster- a tt is actually less practical for me because of the lack of any safe speed. A speedster is cool because I can build it relatively affordably and modify it without hate from the purists.

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 04:11 pm:

Hallelujah, good decision!

Go to the Classified thread, type ctrl-f, and search for "speedster". I counted 33 entries, most were for parts, but there were some whole cars and some projects.

It wouldn't hurt to put your own "wanted" ad in the Classifieds, telling folks what you want, who knows, maybe somebody on the forum lives near you and has a better project that they would be willing to trade or sell.

Keep us posted, and thankyou for listening! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 04:52 pm:

I sold this car for $7000 ten years ago. Would you give me $3000 and your Corvair or buy the crap you are looking at. Pardon me, the shit you are looking at. My Speedster cruised at 55 and had a fresh engine and a new Brassworks radiator. I could have parted it out for $10,000 but I fell for the story that he had a museum and wanted to feature it. He sold it for $14,00 the next month.


Ford used it in an S.V.T. commercial and didn't pay me five cents. Life is tough and then you die. Don't be an ass hole. Make a good trade.


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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:03 pm:

I do have to say, I think if you inflate $7000 in 2006 to 2016 money, it comes out to around $8500, but I also think finding a speedster that nice is going to be hard to do. I think most of your guys "super affordable" finds were pure luck and based on you being the first guy there.

But, anyway, I hopefully can find something more affordable that is a fair deal.

Is modelthaven.com's stuff overpriced too?
James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:16 pm:

James, go to Hershey.

It's only about 10 weeks away. You're in the wonderful position of being able to make day trips and have to overnight there.

Take your Corvair to the car corral.

Go to the MTFCA there.

Go to the MTFCI there.

Go to Lang's there.

You will be exposed to not only the right people to talk T's with, but also to the cars and trucks themselves.

You'll leave in a far better position to make decisions, AND have a great time!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:17 pm:

Frank your language is off key. You don't impress me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:26 pm:

Frank, you should read Mr. Keller's user profile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:28 pm:

I second Bill's recommendation to take your Corvair to the Hershey car corral and see if you can swing a deal there. Bring your clear title and some cash and be ready to make a deal! Your head will be spinning from the sheer number of choices available.

I went to Hershey for the first time last year and I was awestruck by the sheer number and variety of cars in the car corral. Here are a couple of pictures of just a few sections of the car corral, there was much more than what the pictures show. :-)

pic1

pic2

pic3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:47 pm:

Hey guys, give James a break. He came here for some good advice, don't chase him away before he even gets a T. He admitted he was young (high school) and wanted some help. Every body says we need the young to carry on the hobby. I hope what ever you do it works out. Good luck James.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:49 pm:

James,

If the Owls Head Transportation Museum is close, sell your Corvair there at their annual auto auction. (It is late August) They also have a few Ts for sale at that auction, maybe you buy one there with the proceeds.

http://owlshead.org/auctions/detail/1923-ford-t-touring-no-reserve

By the way, for those that have not been, the Owls Head Transportation Museum is a little GEM in a GEM of a town. Been going there most summers since I was a kid. Warren Kincaid is their ground vehicle conservator, a great guy, and a T expert.

And as far as not having anything to do, don't worry about that. I bought the nicest T I could find, formerly owned by Craig Beek and a Grand National winner, and I have been working on it since I got it. There will be plenty to do on a T...

-Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:54 pm:

James, glad you are not making that trade! Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 05:57 pm:

Well said Dean.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 06:12 pm:

Joe, the only issue with selling at owls head is that they are in Maine and I am in Maryland, which is about a 10 hour drive for me.

I guess I'm a little surprised about the lack of offerings for cars/trucks for sale locally and on the forum in my price range.

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 06:31 pm:

You make your own luck. Patience is a virtue. Get involved in a local T club. Let the folks know what you want and what you will pay. Eventually something will turn up. BTW: I like Corvairs. No, I am not looking for another project car! (But maybe someday a turbo Monza)?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 06:31 pm:

Give it a little time, your average T enthusiast is a little less linked in electronically than most of today's youth. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 06:49 pm:

Give it time James to find a decent T. They will be coming out of the woodwork because the T crowd is aging.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 07:18 pm:

James, don't be scared off by some of the guys here. We just don't want to see you get taken, and IMO in our opinion that was the way you were headed. Calling off the deal was the best move IMO.

You have to be patient. I get that you want it now, heck most of us here want stuff right now. I feel I was slightly lucky, it took me less than two months to find something, but knowing what I know now, I think it was slightly high priced, but not unreasonable.

You should be able to come away with a ready to run T that needs minimal immediate work in trade for that Corvair or just selling the car outright. These cars are cheap relatively speaking compared to muscle car era cars, but to rebuild one costs more than their value a lot of times. And to start with a pile of parts that may need to have EVERYTHING redone is really not the best of ideas unless it is a second project IMO. I have seen many cars for sale over time on here I wish I could have bought as they were real reasonable.

Be patient, if you see something and want second opinions, don't be afraid to ask.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 07:56 pm:

James, an ass is a donkey, an onager, or a burro. A hole is where you bury a dead burro, donkey, onager or ass. I am old and sometimes I have to speak the truth while I can. Sorry if I offended you with the "King's" English but if someone keeps on going down the wrong path you must get their attention. Next time I will spell it. 3704 $$@ so they can turn it up side down and read it backwards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 08:30 pm:

James,

Just read through this thread. I must agree that selling the Corvair and buying something better is the right idea.

As for my $.02....building a T is just as fun and can be (depending on the parts sources you hunt) can be quite cheap. I bought my "Starter" T 10 years ago for $800 and built up what I wanted. I doubt I have more then $6,000 into her.


2006 when found







now...

there is no limit to what you can do with a T and nowhere does it say you have to spend a fortune.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 08:42 pm:

Hey Clayton, I had seen that episode of Jay Leno's garage and we had corresponded by email a little bit last year...

Im a big fan of your car :-)

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

Wow, been busy for a few days and not keeping up with the forum. I had thought the deal was already made for the trade. Glad it was not, as I agree with the others about the trade being very lopsided. James they are correct about the cars being out there. Just takes a little looking. Here is a pic of a car I sold about one year ago. It is a 25 touring, with 4 NOS wheels and useable tires. The engine turned over and probably would have ran,the entire chassis was already rebuilt and painted by the previous owner. It had the hood a good radiator and all the top irons. It had all the little parts and all were correct for a 1925,so no parts chasing needed to be done. It needed all the wood replaced (that is why it is held together with straps) They sell a complete wood kit to do that with. I sold it thru the classifieds for 1900.00.

1

These guys are giving a lot of good advice. Some are a little more forceful about it, but still good advice. You may look at 50 or more overpriced cars, then you will find the really good deal. and in the meantime you have a nice Corvair to play with .....

As to the carb ID. I was wrong... I did not notice the two bolt flange. I just noticed the v-shaped top for the air cleaner. It is for a Ford six cylinder probably about 52-53 era as mentioned above....

I started messing with old cars when I was 14 years old, bought a 33 Plymouth when I was 15 and had my first pile of T parts by 17. I currently have 3 model Ts a Model A and still have the 33 Plymouth ... Thru the years I have had a least a dozen Ts as well as a lot of cars I wish I still had.... I am 60 years old now. So please trust me when I say there is plenty of time to make good decisions.... Have fun and be safe .... Donnie Brown ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 08:47 pm:

Any chance of getting the Corvair back if you've made the incredible mistake of trading it? The former T owners must be throwing a party by now if you've made the trade. What you have there is a collection of questionable parts (read: mostly junk)and a possible title that's not worth the paper it's printed on because the #'s don't match. Yeah I know some will say "I started with less". That's their problem and doesn't have to be yours. I strongly suggest you put on your best Nike's and run like hell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 08:51 pm:

Clayton, that is a good looking car. Style and rakishness abound. Love the windshield and top, You win !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 09:32 pm:

James,

Like others, I believe you made a wise choice not to trade your low mileage original Corvair for the T or TT you posted pictures of.

As I mentioned above, I would encourage you to check out some of the local Model T Chapters near you. Below are some of the ones I used to google maps to help estimate the distance and time from Kngsvill, MD to the location of their Point of Contact. Sometime that contact person is in the same city the club meets. Other times it can be a little ways. And in the of the South Carolina chapter, they rotate the meeting place around so folks form different parts of the state as well as Florida & Georgia will much closer for some meetings than others.

Model T Chapters (either MTFCA or MTFCI) distance from Kingsville, MD

40 miles about 54 min

DELAWARE T'S
Emilie Schuler
1736 Appleton Road
Elkton, MD 21921
phone number is also listed see chapter listing at: http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15#D E



48 miles about 1 hr

Maryland
August J. Meershoert
4132 Turkeyfoot Road
Westminster, MD 21158


Or
58 miles 1hr 15 min

Blue And Gray Chapter
c/o Dottie Keeler
P.O. Box 56
Keymar, MD 21757

Or
70 miles for about 1 hr 30 min is the

Valley Forge Chapter
c/o Joe Toner
10 Arianna Lane.
Exton, PA 19341

Or
70 miles for about 1 hr 19 min is the

Heart of Delaware T's
c/o Pete Ratledge
307 Ratledge Rd.
Townsend, DE 19734

By the way, Dane Hawley one of our forum posters, in his book “Come Drive With Me” described how when he was in his teens he worked on other people’s T’s. Helping them assemble this or repair that. He gained a wealth of knowledge and experience doing that.

In addition to working on your car(s), be sure to work at your education also. I went to college because my parents encouraged me – telling me how it usually but not always opens the doors to a better paying job. I wish I had spent a little more time studying and less time “tinkering” with several cars back then. I had fun with the cars – but working a little more on my grades would have been the better long term use of the time. Not an either or – but a shift in effort.

I and others will be keeping an eye out for a drivable running Model T for you. I saw on your profile page you have the user name VWbusman66. When I joined the military after school, I found that a 1956 VW bus was a great Temp Garage for me when I lived on base or later off base in an apartment that did not have a garage. While not as nice as a real garage, it was better than trying to work on the parts in the apartment. Do you also have VW bus?

You asked about Model T Haven. Many of us really appreciate Mark (the owner) and the help/service he provides. He is a “Retail” seller. To keep the doors open, pay the lights, pay the fuel to go to auctions, swap meets, etc., and to clear enough money to live on etc. he has to purchase items at a low enough price and sell them at a high enough price to make a living. I have been very happy with my dealings with him. And I have shared the illustration of going to the Hershey swap meet verses purchasing the part from Model T Haven or similar business. Even though I am paying more for the part than if I was paying “lower hobby prices” I don’t have to rent the hotel room, pay the gas to get to Hershey (566 miles one way), take off from work (use leave), or pay for my wife’s purchases while she goes shopping elsewhere while I go to the swap meet. Hershey is still a wonderful experience and I would encourage anyone to go. But I can afford to pay retail and the shipping/freight and still spend less money for many parts rather than going a long distance to a swap meet and paying the other expenses. Note, if I am going for the fun of it anyway – then purchasing parts while I’m there makes a lot of sense also. Most of us seldom do anything for a single reason. I like what one person told me: “Everyone does something for at least two reasons. First, they have a “good reason.” Second they have the real reason.

We look forward to working with you and others to help find a T that will serve you well. As mentioned before, a T is less slow than a TT with all speed items being equal.

Please keep us posted on what you discover. And we will be looking for a good driver for you.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 10:11 pm:

James, I've had my 1st T for about 3 months. I found a 1926 roadster pickup. I paid $ 2000.00 they are out there. I got it home and had never heard it run. I took the guys word that it ran. I pushed it out of my trailer and checked fluids, installed battery . Crossed my finger , poured in gas and my buddy drove out the drive and down the road.
Be patient they are out there
I value these guys opinion very much because they have years of knowledge you and I can draw on and pass it on hopefully


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Friday, July 22, 2016 - 11:00 pm:

Glad I'm on my 15 T restoration
That being said, I'm currently year and 8 months in and have yet to pilot it down the road and probly late next year at best
I suggest finding a running driving car for your 1st T
Best of luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 05:21 am:

lol my first T was made from parts these guys throw away and it runs fine. A model T will run with bad tolerances until it's about to fall apart. Don't need to pour that much money in them. Just do what you want with what you have. Go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 11:07 am:

Hi all, I had a lengthy conversation with Larry Bohlens last night regarding ways to proceed, Hershey, some local connections, and quite a few stories. Great guy to talk to and Im looking forward to meeting up with him.

Just to clarify for all those who haven't followed or misuderstood- I did NOT follow through with the trade for the TT. Also, I only asked about Model T haven's prices because I had been using his prices as a basis for what I was getting value-wise.

I think the current plan is to try and sell the corvair for $4000 (which i doubt it will sell for), and then slowly assemble a pile of parts big enough to build a metal-bodied speedster on a budget. Maybe that plan will change if I can find a car that is affordable or a TT in good shape.

Hap, you would be correct in assuming a have a few buses. I am by birth, an air-cooled VW guy. My dad and I have a 1966 21 window, 1958 panel van, 1970 deluxe, and a 1978 champagne edition van.

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Tuesday, July 26, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

James, here is one you might want to follow up on. Just a suggestion.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/662369.html?1469573753


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, July 27, 2016 - 02:29 am:

James,
It sounds like you are of a mechanical bent, so that gives you 'one up' on most guys your age. I started restoring my Model A when I was in 8th grade, and was able to drive it to High School the last week of my senior year--even drove it to graduation! It looked like this at the time!



A few years later she looked like this, and pretty much still does (yes, I still have it;I'm the second owner!)



I got converted to Ts a while back, and right now I don't have one that runs! (it happens, hopefully this too will pass soon), but here is my latest acquisition (about 3 years ago), a barn-fresh '25 roadster. While it does now run (took 10 hours from purchase), it needs most all of the body wood changed out, and the babbit thrust washers changed out, before I can go on some drives. Under $2,500 invested initially (including the California DMV ransom for registration and licensing). So, they are out there!





Now some of us might write a bit roughly, but trust us, you will find many very helpful folks here who want you to have FUN with a model T (just one?? Nah, they seem to reproduce when you're not looking)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Keller on Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:21 am:

Hey Guys, sorry about the lack of activity recently but staffing a summer camp and drivers ed at night just adds up to about an hour of free time.

Good news- I sold the corvair yesterday to a collector for a whopping $4000!

Ill be hunting for either a car or a frame and associated parts- Im either doing a budget build speedster or a somewhat stock car.
Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated and keep up the great stories!
James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:25 am:

Glad you went that route. You would have taken a good hosing on either of the initial proposed projects. Don't know what he's asking but Dave Huson has a 1917 runabout "barn find" that looks really nice. You can search his posts here re: the 17. Good luck and consider starting a new thread when you find your perfect T project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:26 am:

Sorry for the mis-info. It's Robert Bergstadt who has the 1971 runabout


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:39 am:

James

Good move to get ready cash, and now search for that project. In high school got a running T cut off pickup touring, and had fun, later a Model A Fordor. But always wanted a speedster

As in high school back then, read cover to cover "Fast Ford Handbook" and other speedster T things, and wanted to build a T speedster.

Had to wait a few years to get it done, but acquired a 1915 chassis with engine, non-running, for $600, and gathered metal bucket seats, and parts such as Overland 30" wire wheels, welded in Model T hubs to fit.

Then a bit of plywood to make the body, and finished with a neat speedster. More fun doing that than anything!




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