1909 band nuts

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 1909 band nuts
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 05:11 pm:

Today a friend brought over his 1909 touring complaining about the brakes. Looked at them and found that there was no adjustment left. So off with the hogs head and we relined the bands. This is the 1st time I worked on an early T. Got the bands in and the hogs head on. Now I have to install the springs, washers and nuts. I am having a difficult time getting the reverse band nut on. There is very little room for my fingers to start the nut. I have the band and spring compressed with a wire and pulled over as far as I can. The washer will slip on and leave about two/three threads for the nut. BUT there is little room. I have dangled the nut on a piece of floss and attempted to start the nut that way, but so far no soap. Does anyone have a suggestion as to getting the reserve band nut started on an early T. Thanks Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett, Spalding United Kingdom on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:03 pm:

That's one of the reasons I have a 1911 hogshead. You might get more help over on the Early Ford Registry or contact someone like Kim Dobbins.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:13 pm:

Should the reverse pedal shaft move over farther? I don't have an early T with the small access cover for the transmission but the later T's I have all of the pedal shafts go over about 5/8" past the band ear when putting in new bands.

You mentioned you had 2-3 threads left after the washer was put on. If you got the washer on you must have had rags stuffed in to keep from losing the washer. Maybe use a long screwdriver to help get the band over farther?

Was the floss through the nut hole? If you tie the floss around the nut and use masking tape to help hold the floss in place maybe that will work. Maybe the floss makes it difficult to make the threads catch. Hope this is some help to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:42 pm:

Here is what I'm looking at.

I have a plastic wire tie holding the band ears together, this is a safety factor. I also have a wire pulling the ear over. You can see the washer is on the shaft and has some floss holding it should it drop. I can hardly fit the nut through the opening, much less get my fingers in there to turn it. I generally pack rags in the opening, but here there is no room for them.
I have the pedal moved over as far as I can get it. The floss is thru the nut and I have never had a problem starting the nut with the floss in there, it is so thin. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:57 pm:

Looks doable (easy for me to say from here).

Keep the dental floss tied around the nut, then take a popsicle stick with a little chewing gum on it and stick the nut onto the popsicle stick. Once you have the nut positioned onto the end of the pedal shaft with the popsicle stick, try reaching in with one finger and see if you can spin the nut enough to get the threads started.

The popsicle stick is thinner than your finger, so there should be enough room for it to hold the nut onto the end of the shaft. That frees up your finger to push on the side of the nut to spin it so that the thread catch.

When I have to work in a tight spot, I sometimes find it helpful to close my eyes and work by feel - that way my eyes don't compete with my fingers.

Good luck! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:11 pm:

Doesn't look any different that any other T. Don't forget the rags!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:12 pm:

Mark, I believe we were thinking along the same lines. I kinda did what you said, but I made a tool out of some thin welding rod, kind of a cradle. I was having trouble holding the nut square to the end of the shaft and turning it. The cradle squared up the nut and with a small screw driver I got the nut to turn and problem solved. I think the brake band should be easier (now I said it!) because there is more room, we'll see. Thanks for the advice. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:15 pm:

Glad you got it licked, looks like there are enough threads for good thread engagement once the bands are broken in. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:17 pm:

Larry here's another picture that is zoomed out. The transmission cover door is a small rectangle rather than the larger vee cover.

Apparently the early T's had various hogsheads.
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:49 pm:

I hope that's not a crack we are looking at in that brake drum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 07:57 pm:

Actually, it is. But since we don't have time to repair that right now, it was reassembled and will be retired until maybe September or October, when the temperatures are much more reasonable. Good Eye! Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 12:10 am:

Fellows, on our RHD cars the only nut adjustable on the inside of the cover is on the first gear band, so it is quite accessible. I had an idea for a drop-the-nut proof tool which may help in tight places. If a short section of thread the size of the nut was welded onto a piece of flat steel, the nut could be screwed onto it. Then the nut is captive, you have the means to exert some pressure on it as you try to start it, and it could be started on the shaft before it winds off the tool.

Might this work?

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 08:44 am:

Mike, thanks for the pic! Glad you got it started. The pic looks like you might have had enough space to use a ratchet head box end wrench to start the nut.
Happy T'ing!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 08:53 am:

On 904 I installed the nuts and washers as loose as possible before installing the hogsheads. I have a copy of a factory tool that holds all the pedals against the hogsheads. Each band has a plastic tywrap holding it. The hogsheads drops in plac, you install the bolts and cut the tywraps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 08:58 am:

Allan, that sounds like a great idea, fab one up and post a pic! :-)

I think you would still want to use the dental floss and/or rags, just in case the nut slipped off the tool before it got a bite on the pedal shaft threads.

(Message edited by cudaman on July 24, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 09:29 am:

Mark, I envisage the nut being threaded on the tool first. Then it can be started on the shaft, before it has been wound off the tool. There should not be a time where the nut is not on some thread during the transfer.

I will make up a tool when I have my roadster finished!!!!!

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 10:45 am:

All sounds like good ideas. When we repair the cracked brake drum I'm going to try Royce's method of putting the nuts and washers on prior to dropping the hogs head on. Thanks for all the help Mike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 10:49 am:

Getting the reverse nut installed in a square hole trans cover is difficult. I use plenty of paper towels stuffed into the spaces and dental floss. Hang in there it can be done. I like the idea of using gum on a popsicle stick, sounds like a good idea. I'll be doing the same job in a week or two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 07:57 pm:

Off the top of my head (danger Will Robinson!)one could make a thin piece of metal with a very short piece of round stock brazed on, about 1/8" or so, diameter that is smaller than the ID of the nut, so the nut can "rest on it, and when you get the nut into position, you can "spin" the nut to get it started!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 08:53 pm:

Another good idea, Dave


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