Adjusting the bands

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Adjusting the bands
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 01:58 pm:

To catch you up. I have replace the hogshead with what looks like a good one.
I am trying to adjust the pedals. I have the top floor board in place as a position holder.
It seems that the pedals donít move the bands very much before they engage the drums.
About how much movement should the bands have? 1/8, ľ inch or more/less?
It seems that the bands move just a little bit. I donít want to burn up the drums.
The bands are Kevlar and fairly new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 02:07 pm:

I have my low and brake bands adjusted so that the pedal is rock solid about 1 inch above the floorboard. I have my reverse band adjusted so that the reverse pedal (when depressed) is rock solid when it is even with the low and brake pedals (when they are in their relaxed positions).

If you don't want to use the floorboard as a reference, I have read elsewhere on the forum that you want the band to clamp the drum firmly when the pedal cam has climbed about halfway up its corresponding cam on the hogshead.

I haven't looked to see how much band movement corresponds to these adjustments, sorry. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 02:31 pm:

Steve, I have always adjusted the 3 pedals to push down 2 inches to start. Place a tape measure at zero at floor and measure up over the top of the pedal. Push down with hand pressure to get 2 inch movement, top to firm pedal. Start car and test. In most cases I normally end up with 1 1/2 - 1 3/4 inch travel. Then adjust as the bands wear in.

Now I have never used Kevlar. Only cotton and wood bands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:02 pm:

P.S. My one inch measurement is from the bottom of the pedal to the floorboard. I run the rubber pads on my pedals, so the bottom of my shoe is higher off of the floorboard than the 1 inch measurement. :-)

I also run the reverse pedal extension that the vendors offer. This brings the top of the reverse pedal above the other pedals, even when it is depressed, keeping me from getting my shoe tangled up between pedals when I'm using reverse. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:54 pm:

Maybe the cams that tightens the bands are worn on your hogshead?
Some are available new, some can be welded up and ground to shape if they're worn bad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:57 pm:

Aren't all the hogshead cams available new? There are only two types, right?

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3436.aspx

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3442.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:59 pm:

Speaking of cams, since my car came with O-rings on the pedal shafts to reduce the oil leakage, I went ahead and gave the pedal and hogshead cams a good coating of spray lithium grease in an attempt to minimize the wear. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 04:14 pm:

I've always heard that the pedals should stop at least an inch from the floor board. After reading the question, I went and measured in a couple of cars.

In the 1915 roadster, all pedals are about 2" from the floor when fully depressed. There's between 2" and 3" of movement before they get down to that point.

In the 1923 touring the low pedal fully depressed is 2" from the floor. The reverse is at 3", and the brake is under 1". I need to adjust the brake out a bit. As in the roadster, there's plenty of pedal movement.

I am going by pedal movement, not band movement. Adjusting them to stop between one and two inches from the floor leaves the bands loose enough to assure that they're not dragging the drums.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 04:23 pm:

Here's the deal. You know not to adjust the Kevlar bands too tight. So, you get them adjusted to where the pedals come close to hitting the floorboards, yet the bands seem to drag and not actuate much. It's due to worn out pedal cams, as mentioned above. Worn cams give such little lateral movement of the pedal shaft that the bands now need to be adjusted close to the drums, (too close), to get them to engage at all. Problem is, when using Kevlar bands, this is a death sentence for your drums.

However, just replacing the removable cams will not help if the cam surfaces of your pedals are worn too, and they most likely are. Without having a good example in front of me at the moment, I would say 1/4" - 3/8" lateral movement of the pedal shaft would be considered good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 04:25 pm:

Steve,

What you say is only true if the pedal cams are not worn out. I know you know that, but Steve may not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 04:29 pm:

One thing I don't think is mentioned above is that on some cars you can adjust the pedal to completely compress the band when the pedal is 1 inch above the floorboard and the band will be too tight! Wear on the pedal or on the cam can affect this. A good way to test after adjustment is to put the car with the parking brake in neutral. You should be able to push the car without the engine turning or to crank the engine without moving the car.

I have had all three of my Model T's with worn cam and notch on the low pedal. You just can't get the adjustment right unless they are replaced.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 04:36 pm:

Norm,

It's been mentioned 4 times above. Still true though.

Tyrone,

What you say is only true for the cotton & wood linings that you have used, as Kevlar generally does not "wear in".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 07:40 pm:

This may sound a bit unkind, but - it makes no real difference how far off the floor the pedals are as long as they work.

The low gear pedal needs to lock low in when pressed way down, lock high when all the way up and select neutral between.

Reverse and the brake need to lock when pressed and be released when not pressed.

The brake handle needs to select neutral when pulled back and half way forward. And allow high when forward.

Simple


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Fred, I'm with you. Adjust till they work. With Kevlar bands it is best to give them as much clearance as possible, so adjust till they work and resist the temptation to go a bit more. It is better to re-adjust them once or twice as they bed in, and then leave them alone.

Occasionally, a combination of worn ramps and worn and bent pedals will not allow you to get the required adjustment. A tweek of the pedals may help, but new ramps is a better cure.

Just been there and done that.
Allan from down under.


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