Torqnique for Rod #4 from under car with 3 dip pan?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Torqnique for Rod #4 from under car with 3 dip pan?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 02:36 pm:

Anyone know of a good torque technique for Rod #4 from under car with 3 dip pan?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 02:47 pm:

I use a 12" long extension with a U joint at the socket. You need the piston near TDC to be able to remove the cap. After you remove a couple shims oil it and reinstall the cap. You should be able to tap the rod with a light hammer and get it to move from side to side if adjusted properly


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:29 pm:

By the way, you don't want to over tighten the rod cap. Just snug the nuts, advance to the next hole where a cotter pin lines up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:31 pm:

Lay on your back, head pointing to the front.

Be sure car can not fall on you.

Fill the area in front of flywheel with rags
Count # of rags going in and # coming out MUST BE THE SAME)
.

Rags are to kept parts from falling into the pan. After all this, you just do it. Then you get out and start looking for a 4 dip pan. Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:32 pm:

I forgot: UNHOOK BATTERY FIRST


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:33 pm:

Ha
Thank You

Don't Torque to 45 pounds?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:35 pm:

Dan, Thank You.

Your steps are now on my checklist


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 03:40 pm:

I think 45 lb-ft is far too much for the poor rod bolts - more like 30-35, even though Ford never published a number back in those days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 04:56 pm:

I think 30 - 35 is too much, and a mistake in trying to achieve any number. You should just tighten snug, then advance to the next hole. You are trying to stretch the bolt a bit, not achieve any certain torque.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 05:23 pm:

Ok


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 08:03 pm:

I'll go with Dan. It's a bitch to adjust that rear rod. I don't even worry about torquing it. I just hope I don't loose a shim while doing it. I put the angle of the rod either at 8 o'clock or 4 o'clock, which ever works. Since #4 gets the most oil, I set it at whatever the rest of them are. It's just too hard to do easily.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 08:19 pm:

Yep, I broke a tool and went fishing in the hogs head. Havent even broken #4 cap loose yet. Argh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 08:21 pm:

JackBreak


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 08:33 pm:

Chinese?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Thursday, July 28, 2016 - 09:46 pm:

I'm going to look for a 5/8 socket with built-in elbow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 02:16 am:

Dan, Thank You so much for suggesting the rags!

I fished out part of a broken cotter pin and the broken elbow above with the help of those rags.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 02:36 am:

Royce,

My tools are a mixed lot from so many places that I don't remember the source of that 1/2" drive elbow I broke. I have a bad habit of breaking bolts and tools, which is why I gave up on my delicate turbo Porsche and swapped it for a Boxster S. I've never seen my Boxster's engine and I don't plan to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 02:55 am:

I found that it is easiest to have the rod 3/4 up to the left, then turn the crank 3/4 up the other way for the other rod bolt. A lot of rocking back and forth, but it works for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 08:57 am:

Thx Dale. I'll try that, too.

Even the cotter pins on #4 ate my lunch.

I'll take a break to work this weekend and maybe my dippers will arrive Monday.

Royce,
At least rods 1-3 are now tight enough to only move with a slight hammer tap. I will also measure the journals to know which rod size to order in the future. The mains don't seem to have any play.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 09:13 am:

Chris - While replacing the #4 rod and cap on my engine with a 3-dip pan last summer, the hardest part was getting the dang cotter pins out of the cap bolts. Had to pull them out from the rear, where, as you've discovered by now, there's not much room to get in there and move around. I had to drive one out from the front with a small drift made from a steel rod. Hope I won't have to do that job again for awhile... Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 09:14 am:

Chris, I don't think it is a good idea to jack the front axle from the center. The axle is relatively easy to bend and you may distort it doing this changing the camber.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 09:19 am:

Thanks Dave. The number for Carter pins were very difficult and I don't know how I would have pulled them without using one of my brake spring tools. It looks like a pair of pliers with a really wicked hook tip. I will try to post a picture later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 09:47 am:

John, i agree that one side at a time seems wiser but less stable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 09:49 am:

I stumbled across this old drum break tool and it is now my new best Cotter pin puller.Cotter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 09:49 am:

I apologize for so many voice-to-text spelling errors


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 01:51 pm:

It sure makes life easier on the #4 for me when I switched to what all modern cars use, Self Locking Nuts!
Don't tell anyone and they won't know...

You might use some dental floss on that dipper to cap to hold it all together. The Rags are the best tip. Have Fun and Good Luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, July 29, 2016 - 02:29 pm:

Thx Gene

The other day when I was fishing for my broken tool bits and the Hogshead it occurred to me that the magnets on the magneto make it even risk year because it will pick up any pieces I miss. My first thought was to reach in there with my magnet extension then I realized it might stick to a magneto magnet. I feel lucky that I retrieve everything using the rags and my messy hands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 02:44 pm:

I will be checking my rod caps this week and plan to switch to self locking nuts......I will leave the oil in the pan as you only lose what is in the cover. I found that that low profile bubble wrap can be placed under the 4th rod and it will reduce the area that is open by floating on the back oil.....I found that working one bolt at a time is best and using the 4 & 8 o'clock positions........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 08:50 pm:

Robert, bubble wrap is a unique idea, but it won't work for me. I can't handle bubble wrap without wasting time popping the darn bubbles. I finally had to remove it from my house because the addiction was a hindrance to getting anything done around here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 09:39 pm:

Someone correct me if I am wrong since it has been so many years since I have used this wrench but I believe it was made specifically for the problem described by the OP.....
Third Main 3 Dip Pan...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 10:14 pm:

Bubble wrap came with the dippers!
Thank You, for an excellent tip.
Check!

Michael,
That does look like the special wrench that would work.
Thank You

I have purchased two 5/8 inch sockets with built-in swivels. One is 3/8 drive it one is 1/2 drive. Fingers crossed to try rod #4 again tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 07:53 am:

The bubble rap is the 1/4 inch stuff , lays flat and can be placed in like a coffee filter with one end cut out....it blocks the sides and back.....


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