Detachable ear type preference

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Detachable ear type preference
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Lawson-Kingston,TN on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 05:56 pm:

Of the two different types one with the slit and the other with the round rivet is one better than the other?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 06:04 pm:

The ones with the slit don't fit in an aluminum hogshead, found that out first hand.

I also had a round rivet one have it's ear come free when stepping on the brake in traffic. :-( Make sure you pick a round rivet band with a good unworn ear, a full unworn rivet and a good full round band.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Lawson-Kingston,TN on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 06:32 pm:

Jay I have a cast iron hogsheads. Are you saying the rivet ones are better or that's all you've used because your aluminum hogsheads?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 06:37 pm:

I haven't had the opportunity yet to try a set of slit bands on any of our other T's. I am sure others will chime in here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 07:21 pm:

Jay is correct: bands that use lugs (slits) to attach the demountable end do not work well in aluminum transmission covers. The long lugs stick up higher from the band. This is a problem primarily with the brake band. The lug comes in contact with the left side of the transmission cover, effectively locking the left ear in place. It also puts constant reassure on the brake band lining on the left side against the transmission brake drum.

The lugged transmission bands work well in cast iron covers from from 1925 to 1927. With introduction of the 4 dip pan, the area around the transmission drums was made a little bid wider. This also was he case for the cover, and I have not a a problem with using lugged brake bans in 1925 and later Model Ts?

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Lawson-Kingston,TN on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 07:45 pm:

Trent I have a 24 with a 3 dip pan. So the lug one won't have enough room?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, August 04, 2016 - 09:38 pm:

Robert

With your '24 those lug style will fit fine.

Here is comparison photo. The rivet type (background) stands proud off the lining surface .051" (at the leading front rivet and trailing rivet).

The lug style stands proud only .062" off the lining surface (at the leading front lug and the trailing lug).





Angle of photo gives allusion the lug style is much taller, but is really only by .010"

Not too much difference for iron hogshead, as for the early aluminum hogsheads, that's another story, as demountable ear bands weren't made until the later years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Friday, August 05, 2016 - 07:56 am:

Robert,

The lugged bands may or may not fit in an earlier cast iron transmission cover. I have never tried one in a Model T of that era. As a consequence of my experience with an aluminum transmission cover, I only use the button head bands in my earlier cars, and the lugged style are reserved for 1925 and later cars.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, August 05, 2016 - 09:41 am:

Trent

Haven't researched as well as you, but can only find two rev's on the iron hogshead w/starter,
fac. #826E ( '19-'25) and fac. #826F ('26-'27)

Have noted the change in Service Bulletin, Oct 1924 where that 'oil deflector' raised line was then cast inside the upper circle of the iron hogshead.

Guess at the time of the change to the casting to add the 'deflector', that was start of the 1925 model year? Would think there is a rev fac. # for a bigger wider hogshead in 1925?

So one could reach up under the inspection cover and feel that 'raised' line in the casting and know that hogshead is wider for the yet to be introduced wide brake drum?

As for the detachable ears, those are noted in May 1925 Service Bulletin, the first style button or rivet ears are P/N 3414.

I have used those in all the iron starter hogsheads with no issues.

The '26-'27 wide brake drum ears, button style P/N 3414B and the later lug-style ears, P/N 3414D must fit only the wide bands in the '26-'27 hogsheads. The matching ears for the narrow bands are 3114 (rivet or button type) and 3414C (lug type).

I know these later Lug-type narrow bands do work in the earlier cast iron starter hogsheads.

Below are a set of the 3414C Lug-type narrow detachable bands in my 1919 engine, they fit fine.



(Message edited by Dan_Treace on August 05, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, August 05, 2016 - 11:23 am:

I have had issues with the lug type in my hogs head on my 21 fitting under the low pedal boss/cam. The lug would not allow the band to come up under the boss on the drivers side with new lining installed. I had to grind some off the top of the lug to make them work. Not all the bosses on the driver side are in the same place, I think that some are lower when cast. While the tab may have a height difference of only .010 over the button type, the length of that difference comes into play, also the thickness of the lining used.
If you have the button type I would suggest using them before the tab type. If you have the tab type try lining just one and try in all three places for fit. Fit does not JUST mean you can get it installed. If it's forced down onto the drum it's too tight, it needs to float some above the drum under the drivers side bosses.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 10:36 am:

I use the long slit style with a 15 hogs head
On lots of cars never had an issue


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