Are there different one man tops

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Are there different one man tops
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 09:07 pm:

Almost done with the car except for the top started working on it and for a grin put on the car. The bows seem to be for a straight windshield car mine is a 23 touring. When installed the brackets are at the wrong angle for the posts and when the bar is pushed up the back bow sticks out behind the car instead of up. It definitely is a one man top though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 09:24 pm:

The main(back bow) is supposed to overhang a bit.A straight windshield uses a two-man top and the front seat area will have body brackets to mount it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 09:31 pm:

I know there is a difference between 26-27 from 23-25. Not sure there is a difference between 23-25. The rear bow which bolts onto the post has a curve on the 26-27. If it is straight, the bow is for an earlier year.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 09:59 pm:

I wish I had taken a pic while i had it on the car I will try and put it back on tomorrow ans take some


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Saturday, August 06, 2016 - 10:02 pm:

The reason i asked about a straight windshield car is that if i hold the front straight above the bottom of the windshield everything looks like it is in the right spot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 10:56 am:

Here's an older pic of our '25:

'25 touring

The front of the top sticks out in front of the windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 12:22 pm:

Green


Sorry to jump off topic. I'm here because I need a top too, but my '24 was also painted green and came from North Dakota.
Were these possibly part of a fleet in Canada?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

Chris: Is your car a Canadian car? I ask because the tops may be different than US cars. Windshields are different. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 02:59 pm:

It only occurred to me today when I saw this green model T in Canada, but it is possible my car came into the US from Canada. Mine had a North Dakota title. I wish I could search mtfca by VIN to find previous owners. Ha


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 04:47 pm:

Chris,

You do not need to search a VIN to know if it is a USA body or not for 1913 to 1925. For a touring or roadster if it has a false door stamped into on the left hand side -- (USA driver's side) it is a USA body.

Note a couple of the USA open cars such as the 1911 torpedo, 1912 torpedo had opening doors on both sides -- but in general 1912 to 1925 USA open runabouts and tourings had a fake/false/dummy door on the left hand side.

The Canadian bodies always had two front doors from the introduction of front doors. The English produced bodies had a false / dummy door on the right side of the car until 1918 when they added the additional working front door on the right side of the car.

Also the Canadian engines that were assembled in Canada had a "C" at the front of the serial number. That started in May 1913 and continued to the end of production.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 05:07 pm:

Note the Canadian windshield had an opening lower part while the USA version did not. It was also apparently introduced during the 1920 model year.

The One Man Canadian tops and windshields should interchange with the USA tops and windshields. BUT the individual linkage is different on the earlier Canadian tops. I.e. the entire top should work ok, but don't take some of the top irons from one style and try to rebuild a USA top -- they were different with several versions during the first few years. Ref the Jan 1, 1925 Ford Canada Price List -- where it has the Socket Assemb complete 10026 for 1920-21; 10026A for 1921-24; 10026B for 1922; 10026C for 1922-23; 10026D 1923-24.

Below is a copy from a 1923'ish Canadian Service Bulletins:



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 06:07 pm:

Hap: The two windshields are different, parts will not interchange. The whole windshields may change, but would have to be stanchions and all. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 07:20 pm:

Dan,

Yes, that is correct not the individual parts but the complete windshield assembly - posts, frames, and all.

DISCLAIMER: I believe a person could swap out the entire Canadian windshield Posts and all with a USA one. BUT -- I have not done that so there may be some reason it will not work. But it sure looks like it should be able to be done.

Has anyone made that swap? If so -- was it a direct remove and replace? Or did it take some fitting? Or was it a lot of rework? (Many things can be made to fit with enough effort. For example a 327 Chevy head fitted to a Model A Ford engine. But it took a lot of cutting and welding etc. see: http://specialtymotorcams.com/pages/ovhconversions.html And yes that is the Bill Stipe that makes the Model T cams.)

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Sunday, August 07, 2016 - 10:20 pm:

Hap,
Thank You very much and I apologize for interrupting this thread. Mine is a USA, falsie door, 1924 Touring car.

After seeing another one painted green paint, now I'm curious to find out if anyone painted it green as a fleet car, maybe for a National Park service, etc.

Certainly, it was not a police interceptor, but maybe there's some history worth searching before I simply dismiss my green paint as the choice of an individual who did not know or care about originality.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 10:52 am:

I posted the picture of our '25 for the benefit of Christopher Lambert, to give him an idea of what the top looks like. From the condition of the top and the padding I believe that it is original. The 2 windows in the back of the top are glass.

I never thought to mention that it is a US car, I bought it in Saskatchewan, but understand that it came from Montana.

Chris, the green paint is not original, the inside door panels have been replaced w/sheet metal and also painted the same green.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:04 pm:

The top that I have


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:10 pm:

Sorry for the delay, as you can see it is a one man top that appears to be too long for the car. if I hold the front of the top over the bottom of the brackets for the windshield it lines up in the correct manner. also the brackets do not line up with the holes for the posts at this angle, but would be lined up if the windshield was straight. I am thinking that it is possibly a one man top for a straight windshield car? not sure if that existed or not. if someone has the measurements for the length of the various bows for a 23 -25 I can compare to see where this is different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:19 pm:

top down


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:20 pm:

with the top down everything looks correct


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:26 pm:

drivers side


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:28 pm:

here is a view from the drivers side I didn't push the bar all the way up as I didn't want to put that much stress on the windshield as you can see the back bow is all ready too far behind the car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 09:38 pm:

Try removing the front bow from the windshield posts and push up on the middle of each side to lock in place. You might need someone to hold the front bow when you do this. Then see how much the front bow hangs over the windshield. I think you will find that the clamp is very close to the windshield post. If so, you have the correct bows.

Most of the upward push will raise the second and the rear bow, not push the front forward. When you get ready to install the top, you have webbing which is tacked to the front and rear bow. The webbing lays on top of the center bows.

One of the most important things when installing the top is the height of the rear bow when the top is up. All the top material is cut and sewed to fit when the rear bow is the correct height from the rear of the car. Measure from the top of the body, not from the floor. The body might be leaning to one side and if you measure from the top of the body, everything will be straight when the body leans in either direction.

Your top kit should give you the correct height for the rear bow. The webbing should be tacked to hold that bow in the proper position. Then the top can be installed.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 01:14 am:

I tried that as well and the front brackets are at the wrong angle as well


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 07:07 am:

Christopher,

Disclaimer – I don’t have a one-man top car so I could easily be wrong on this. Hopefully someone with one of those tops will chime in soon and correct or confirm I guessed “ok.”

I believe you have a top for a different car. There were many cars back in the day that were a little larger than the Model T. I suspect that top fits one of them. Below is an illustration that Phil Mino drew for the 1925 tops which are the same 1923-1925 USA tops it is posted on his site at: http://www.fordfarm.net/25TrgTop2.html (Thank you Phil!).



If you compare those measurements to your car, you should quickly be able to tell if it is within a half inch or so or it is 4 or 5 inches off.



Phil also posted some great photos of his top in the up position they are located at: http://www.fordfarm.net/25TrgTop.html


You mentioned that the top looked correct when it was moved forward to attach to a simulated straight windshield. They did make accessory aftermarket “one-man-tops” to replace the earlier two man tops. But just looking at the photos I think the top is too long for that application. But if you have someone hole the top in the correct upright position and hold a yard stick etc. to simulate a straight windshield that would help us visualize better if it may have been an accessory replacement top or not.

Again a disclaimer -- I've never put one of those one man tops up or down -- so I do NOT have any first hand experience with them.

By the way did the top bows come with the car and was there a top on the bows at that time? Or did they come with the car but were not attached? Or were they purchased later etc.?

Note is there someone close by with a one man top that you could just compare your top with? That would probably make it obvious one way or the other.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lambert on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 08:34 pm:

The top came with it but not on it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:10 pm:

Chris,

Stand behind the car and lift the rear bow to the 22-1/2" dimension shown in Hap's diagram above. I think everything will come into place when you do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

Also, bring in the 21-3/4" dimension to the #3 bow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ALAN FAIRCLOUGH from Houston, TEXAS on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:19 pm:

I have a 23 with a one man top but either there is a secret way of working it or it is a "virtual" one man top. It takes two and it is quite a struggle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:20 pm:

Alan,

"one man top" is the biggest lie in automotive history.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:35 pm:

Chris just looking at your picture from the drivers side, the collapsed top, the top sockets are to big based on the thickness of the socket joint thats joined together to the flat metal support bar. In addition the removable top socket with the slight curve at the pivot is backwards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 12:37 pm:

Nope never mind the removable socket is correct. Duh thinking 26/27


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