What do you think Ralph Nader would say about gas tank placement on Speedsters?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: What do you think Ralph Nader would say about gas tank placement on Speedsters?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 01:10 am:

I was curious with the placement of Speedster gas tanks.MY TANK!
I then thought of Ralph Nader.
Tanks are usually behind your head on these cars.

A double whammy is my battery is underneath the tank. A bit of a leak and spark and I would then become intimate with a plastic surgeon.

Don't you fellas worry at times where the fuel is?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 01:23 am:

If the tank is immediately behind the seat and you have a spare tire mounted behind the tank ..........
I have never heard of anyone having a gas tank explode from a rear ender. I don't worry about it.
Driving any model T, speedster or otherwise can be dangerous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 03:07 am:

Gasoline tanks started out under, in front of, and behind seats on some of the earliest cars. They continued in many millions of cars and trucks throughout the '10s, '20s, and early '30s. Not just Fords, but many other manufacturers as well. Gasoline tanks continued to be placed behind the driver's seat in pickups and some larger trucks clear through the '60s and even early '70s. I suppose Mr Nader had something to do with manufacturers stopping that practice. I would imagine that from the many millions of vehicles that had gasoline tanks put next to, under, or almost in the lap of, drivers and passengers, more than a few hundred of them were somehow ignited resulting in injury or even death. Most of those, there were probably other considerable causes involved also.
I don't care much about Ralph Nader, or anything he ever said.
Drive carefully, and enjoy! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 07:14 am:

Who Cares? He didn't like my Corvair either (which I still drive) I think he was just a young dolt trying to make a name for himself, and he succeeded! :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:11 am:

Don't you fellas worry at times where the fuel is?

Yep, that's why its best to know the gas is only in the tank.

Gasoline leaks, at the tank, at the carb, fuel line, and sediment bulb are more of a worry to me. Any time you can smell gas around your T, better check and fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:24 am:

I don't give a fiddlers da-n what that yahoo Nader thinks.

If we tried to protect our selves from every hazard we would all live like the bubble boy did in the 70's. And even then, we would be afraid of the bubble busting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:34 am:

Everything is dangerous about Model T's (when compared to anything as modern as it had seat belts standard mounted) and T based speedsters are particularly dangerous - but they're so much fun that it may be worth the risk, if you do a pre flight check so everything works and isn't about to fall off and think carefully about where and when you drive, considering the traffic..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:39 am:

Ralph Nader may have been annoying, but his book UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED, was accurate. Most people remember it only for his criticism of the Corvair, but the majority of the book dealt with the resistance of auto manufacturers to installing safety equipment (such as seatbelts) and not making design changes that would have made their cars safer. Sadly, GM had already redesigned the rear suspension of the Corvair before Nader's book was published. Nader was likely at least partially responsible for destroying the market for what had evolved into a pretty good car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:51 am:

Ralph didn't know about correct tire pressure for front and rear tires and got the Corvair cancelled. He is an @$$ 4073 and should rot in 4377.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 10:46 am:

Mike,

The only gasoline fire I've ever heard of in a T was because someone used a rubber hose for a fuel line and got it too close the exhaust pipe, which burned through it, caused a leak and started a fire that destroyed the car. Nobody hurt.

Make sure everything is in good shape, use common sense and don't worry about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 11:11 am:

Ralph Nader = don't care.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 11:30 am:

If you think a tank full of fuel in the back is an issue, don't even think about a 26-27 T or a Model A!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

Funny you should mention rubber fuel line. Mine had plastic line and plastic shutoff when I got it . First T , first drive was very short. Was going to take second drive a few minutes later and went to turn on fuel and noticed air bubbles going up the clear fuel line. Melted a hole by manifold . There was no second drive till metal line and shutoff was replaced .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 01:13 pm:

I thought the book (Unsafe at any speed) displayed Mr. Nader's ignorance very thoroughly. As for seat belts, seems like they were offered by , Ford and probably others before they even heard of Ralph. Read your history. Dave in Bellingham,WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kirk Peterson on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 01:42 pm:

Like John said:
"Nader was likely at least partially responsible for destroying the market for what had evolved into a pretty good car."

Adding to what Dan said:
I have seen what happens when you do not have an overflow tube on a 26-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 08:19 am:

Mid to late 50's for Ford seat belts. Didn't go over well at all. Anyone ever see the Mythbuster's episode where they try to get a fuel tank to blow up like they appear to in the movies? Couldn't get one to go without creating "extenuating circumstances" as in explosives.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 08:50 am:

Ralph would have a hissy fit about every part of a Model T starting with the tires and ending with the roof.

He would complain about the sensitive steering, the narrow tires, the weak spokes, the lack of brakes, no seat belts, no safety glass, no soft dash boards, doors that open too easily, high center of gravity, toxic fumes, etc.

Now that I think about it - The Model T is a death trap.
I am surprised that anyone has ridden in a Model T and survived!

I guess some people are daredevils and like living on the edge!

(Message edited by nhusa on August 11, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:55 am:

In it's defense the T became a death trap over time. All those accidents years back were just accepted as hazard of driving as in "It'll never happen to me". As cars became safer the older cars became deadlier. The problems are two fold as I see it. 1: part failure on an antique vehicle causing an accident. Very often it's a single car accident to boot. 2: drivers who drive the T like a modern. I belong here as much as you do. You do. The problem is if you hit me I'm probably not walking away plus as chances are you're an a**h**e I have to look out for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 10:18 am:

Ford originally offered seat belts for the first time, as an option, in 1956 as part of their "Lifeguard Design".

The package included improved door latches, padded sun visors, dished steering wheel, and, as I mentioned, seat belts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 10:23 am:

I don't think Ralph Nader is worried about Model T's!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 11:25 am:

In defense of Ralph Nader, talking about bottom line safety and potential risks to the old car people
is simply preaching to the choir. Kinda like telling a Marine he needs to be aware of his surroundings.

Truth is, MOST people go through life in a haze of complacency and ignorance and do not give a moment's
thought to anything but how to be a slacker, maintain a situation of repose, or just living a life of general
sloth. These are also the people who are easily whipped up in emotion by sensational and generalized
exclamations of threat and safety, followed by a total lack of personal initiative to run a self-inventory of
their own responsibility in creating/aiding any such risks. How many (even here) are as prepared as possible
for a home invasion, or keep a seriously adequate fire suppression device within reach in their AO ? We
ALL suffer from some level of complacency or ignorance, even the ones that are largely amped up and
on point.

I went to the eyeball doctor yesterday to get my viewing orbs checked and new lenses dialed in. The
young doc had the sense to get his degree and make a well-paying career of his life, but clocked in a
strong 100lbs. over what would be considered healthy for his size, and stepped out to have a butt in the
moments while I was walking up to the office. But I'll bet this kid could rattle off an earful regarding the
safety features of his up-to-date and "thoroughly safe" automobile ! Nice guy, got the job done. But a
fruitcake old car person doesn't have to give much thought to the world around them to understand how
we really don't compare well to the average mall drone when it comes to how we see the world and our
awareness of what our grandparents might call "common sense" things.

Old Ralphie played well into the nuevo-generation-think that personal awareness and responsibility was
somebody else's burden, so that the hoy-pelloy could get back to enjoying an undisturbed head full of
grey matter and a beer and a lounge chair.

Remember kids, ...

Point One: Agency is the God-given mental capacity to make choices, good, bad, or otherwise.

Point Two: Only a fool believes that all men are created equal.

The proof is ANYWHERE you look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 03:06 am:

When Nader was checking out a new Volvo at the factory in Sweden he grabbed the directional light switch handle and told the folks at Volvo he thought that shifting lever could be dangerous. Nader had never had a driver's license or driven a car. And didn't even know how to drive a car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 05:09 am:

Mike,
I don't like where the battery is on your speedster, and mentioned it in the thread on moving the seat back. I would mount it outside the frame rail, like on a TT, IMHO it is way to close to the gas tank right now (the tank being metal and the battery posts sticking up near it).
As for Ralph Nader, yep, he maligned the Covair when it was folks using the wrong tire pressure making the car unstable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 06:11 am:

Ralph Nader might have never gained any notoriety if GM hadn't hired a detective to follow him around. That detective somehow lost his cover and when Nader became aware he went to the press and ultimately Congress. The rest is as they say is History.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 09:25 pm:

With a straight face I don't think I would defend anything about a T, but the plate glass sure gets my vote, safety glass does not cost much!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 09:29 pm:

Hello David Dewey. Thanks for the advice.I'm also worried about that.
What the heck is a TT?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 09:37 pm:

Mike, Glad you asked! I always knew what a "TT" was,
just wasn't sure if or what it might stand for. I asked this a few days back. Check out the great replies! http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/666429.html?1470802741


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:04 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:10 pm:

Okay.... What does that mean? I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:13 pm:

hahaha..
I still don't get it?
Ton Truck ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:26 pm:

Well... Maybe... Probably... I guess... Most likely... I'll go with it until someone proves otherwise? If nothing else, it certainly showed in the parts manual what would fit and where.
Until the post the other day, I never heard of the "BB" How about that story? I'm still learning!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:32 pm:

I always admire a decisive person. Clear and to the point.
hahaha.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:33 pm:

And BTW... How about Mr. Burger and a couple other owners of darn nice TT's shedding some light here! So we don't drift on this thread, maybe look back at
www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/666429.html?1470802741
Thanks Guys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:37 pm:

Mike,
I dunno, because the later big truck in the model A era was an AA. Maybe someone's typewriter stuck??
:-)
Anyways, look at some pictures of TT Chassis, you'll see the battery is hung outside the frame rail, lower down than the "typical" car mounting. You could put it in a box too, put a tool box on the other side for balance if you like.
BTW, I don't get the picture either!! Probably because I don't recognize the famous person (face blindness can be a problem sometimes!).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Esik on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 11:55 pm:

How did you know he was famous?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 12:29 am:

Hagerty,

Let's be clear, .... "Mr. Burger" was my old man. I am just "Burger". :-)

For the uninitiated, TT = Model T Ton Truck. If memory serves, they made
a few in 1917, but production really ran from 1918 to end of T production in
1927. The trucks were all black era design, in spite of the cars going to the
new "Improved Car" design in 1926-7, so a 26 or 27 TT still looks very much
like a 1924-5. Early trucks were delivered as chassis-only, bodies being custom
built from the cowl back in the aftermarket. The factory C-cab was introduced
in 1923 and was available until the end. The "box cab", or "closed cab" was
introduced in 1925 and was also available until the end of T production.
Chassis-only were also available until the end for those desiring custom bodies.

1926 TT box cab with factory stake/flatbed:



And just to keep this ON topic, Ralph Nader would most definitely deem these
unsafe at any speed. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 01:35 am:

Mike,
Good point; I just assumed since the picture was used here, that it would be a famous person!! Besides, he looks sorta familiar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 08:52 am:

Burger, I somehow knew "Mr. Burger" would get a rise out of you! It's all good! But, as I mentioned, having known 'what' a TT is, we seem to have concluded it stands for 'Ton Truck' My other question that appears pointless is, the AA and also the BB were actually designations and not any form of abbreviation per say?
So... while we are "On topic" my grandfather who owned the small fleet of Franklins, also at one time owned a large 'flock' of Corvairs. You can bet Ralph Nader was NOT much of a topic in his garage!
Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 09:08 am:

The revelations that came out of the Nader period were shocking. Automobile manufacturers were producing vehicles with known hazards to customer life and limb having calculated that the liability payments to the victims families during subsequent litigation was cheaper than actually fixing the problem. In other words, lawsuits resulting from these death and disfigurement externalities was considered a cost of doing business by management. Obviously, Nader's place as a consumer advocate came at a point in time when there were a lot more cars on improved roads going much faster.



(Message edited by jesselashcraft on August 15, 2016)


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