TT rear end question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: TT rear end question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason - UT on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 02:59 pm:

I have had a few comment that this TT rear end is older based on the metal bead or ridge seen where the housing meets the axle tubes. Does anyone know what years they made the metal bead? I can find no sources of info on this question that has plagued me for years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 04:51 pm:

Jason, that is the earliest TT rear end, I would say '18-19 model years. Also, the early driveshaft tubes at the rear were different, had a bigger diameteter section. Additionally, that rear end may have originally come with a bearing cap that did not have a grease plug. Is the speed lever on the controller shaft forged? Or is it pressed like a 15(?)up car? That rear end may also have come with kidney buster tires instead if pneumatics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 05:03 pm:

Everything Jim said is on target. Over the years there have been a few conversations about dating the beads, but so far to the best of my knowledge the closest anyone has come is year models 1918 & 1919.

I'll go just a little further - the bearing cap with the plug is almost certainly not original to that rear end housing. The early caps don't have the plug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 05:11 pm:

And since I am rusty at this,does it have any other early characteristics? Wishbone above front axle? Headlight and horn switch combination, or just a button on top of steering gear? Headlight switch in firewall to right of coilbox?Early type radiator shell(if low) that has no spring on top?The TT's were the first to get that feature, and I've always wondered if that was the usual afterthought or they figured from the beginning there would be more frame flex in a truck. Also judging by the good looking rear springs that truck was not used too hard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 05:28 pm:

The innards of the rear end will also help date it. if it has a differential pinion shaft and 2 pinion gears it's a 1918-23. If it has a differential pinion spider and 4 pinion gears it's 1923-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Chillingworth on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 06:10 pm:

The early TT frames also had a shorter rear cross member with only one hole on either side for mounting a body or bed. The end cap w/o the oil plug, mentioned above, seems rather rare as most early rear housings I've seen are like the one pictured, having the cap with the plug. Either that change was made very early on or owners replaced them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 06:32 pm:

What Rich says is true. Now that he mentions it, the cross member in Jason's photo could be the longer one, it's hard to tell.

Jason - does the cross member have one or two holes on each end? Or, better yet, measure it and post the results here? 31 3/4" long and one hole on each end makes it an early unit. 34 1/2" and 2 holes on each end make it a later unit.

That's the problem with these old trucks. Many of them were cobbled together from whatever parts were at hand over the years. Since so many parts from different years were interchangeable you're liable to find almost anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 08:33 pm:

Henry,
Quite true. What I am building is two TTs made up of anything and everything I have collected. Don't know what they will turn out to be....after all they are just going to be orchard trucks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 09:09 pm:

You're maintaining a long tradition John. Once you've worn out those two, tear them apart and make yet another truck out of the good parts. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason - UT on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 05:17 pm:

Thanks for the info guys. I have to ask though, how does everyone agree that its an early rear end? I mean, is there a reference book out there somewhere? Or is it just experience seeing the beaded housing on trucks with older engine numbers?

I'll measure the rear cross member this weekend.

Jim, what is the wishbone above the front axle? Are you referring the front engine mount?

I think this truck is a hodge podge of parts from different years. The engine number dates the engine to Feb 1926, the wood firewall indicates 1923 or earlier, the 2 rivets that hold the handbrake on the frame indicates 1924 or earlier. It also has single hole cab mounts but I not sure what years that indicates. (At least I think those dates on those parts are right(?))

Really curious if there are any sources people use to narrow down the bead on the axle housing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 06:26 pm:

Jason, 1919 and earlier t front ends the front radius rod bolts through the front spring perches. Later 'wishbones' Bolt under the axle. Many, if not most of the early front units were changed to the later style. That rouded bead on the rear end is the indicator of the early housings search for a1918 or 1919 price list of parts. The vast majority of Ts one finds are a mixture of parts from whatever year will Bolt together, including every one I have ever resurrected.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 06:46 pm:

And, I forgot to add,i get kind of excited when somebody comes up with an earlier T with the early parts still on it. Especially a TT. Because if any T was used hard, things got replaced. And having dragged my share of TT carcasses home, I have this observation to make. They were either A) totally worn out to the point that it was incredible the thing had to somehow actually continue to run to get like that or B)somehow escaped getting used much.And a surprising number were in pretty good shape, mechanically, at least.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason - UT on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 04:37 pm:

So the rear cross member is 34.5" and has 2 holes on each side. I am guessing that means the cross member is younger than the other rear end parts. When was the longer rear cross member instituted?

I pulled the bottom plug on the pumpkin yesterday. It was pretty interesting so see the sludge that came out in chucks. It had slivers of gold metal in it. That cant be good...

(I should have mentioned this truck has been sitting for decades so I have not been driving with it like that luckily)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 05:32 pm:

The worm wheel is bronze or similar metal. I would not worry much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 05:39 pm:

What about other early characteristics?Pictures?And what icon am I accidentally hitting on this phone that is changing it to Spanish?? It takes a different screen to switch it back. Waste of profanity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 06:05 pm:

¿Se refiere a decir que no habla español?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 06:28 pm:

Ich schpreke kein spanish.and not much Deutsch either!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Magnus Wiberg on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 09:25 am:

Also notise that the oil filler plug is positioned a bit from the joint on the older, beaded axle. On the later types , it is sited equally distant from the joint as the drain plug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 10:49 am:

I think you are missing the point in many of these helpful posts, still trying to nail it down to something
specific. This is a TT truck we're talking about, therefore is it a 1918-1927 model, capable, and fully
expected to be nothing less than a pile of parts from potentially the full range of years, because trucks
got used and fixed and used and fixed again, and over 90+ years, their date of manufacture identity
became more one of "cool old farm truck" identity. Embrace the love. Get in that dog and beat it like
the beast it is. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason - UT on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 02:50 pm:

Thanks guys.

And Burger, I am not "missing the point in many of these posts". I am fully aware I have a typical TT that has been thrown together over the years. I am simply trying to sort out what years the main parts come from. For me that is fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tt newbee on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 05:33 pm:

Jason, I agree that it is interesting to try to figure out what is original and what is not.
The amount of knowledge on this forum continues to amaze me. Has a book been written on how tt parts changed over the years, or is it just something one has to learn and pick up from others with experience?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 08:54 pm:

TT newbie,the passenger car and TT changes parralled each other for parts that fit both. 'The car that changed the world 'is a must if you want to follow 'improvements 'made to the T&TT.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 10:26 pm:

Jason,

Just don't be getting all purist and numbers-matching on us. Or I'll be forced to fart in your general direction ! :-)


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