Another cotter pin question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Another cotter pin question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:00 pm:

Do you have to, for mechanical reasons, have all cotter pins in castellated fasteners? My pan and some others have not been installed, the pan looks like a real pita, The engine was a pro overhaul (no pins?), I have cotters in all others I have had apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:07 pm:

Thomas, I believe the engines had lock washers instead of cotter pins from about 1923 on for the pan to block bolts. Every thing else must have cotter pins or wire so the car doesn't shake itself apart.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:09 pm:

I use lock washers on the block/hog head to pan bolts. None of the ones I work on are show cars and it's easier to adjust for looseness later after thing have settled in. Other places yes, although I must admit I did us lock washers on the front and center main bolts last time I put MY engine back together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 09:42 pm:

Much thanks guy's, tomorrow all those pan bolts get lock washers, I couldn't see, loose or to tight on the pan bolts to use cotter pins. My car doesn't have any front sheet metal on it yet so not to bad to get to everything now, and Stephen my engine is a '23, maybe I'll replace the castellated nuts too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 10:47 pm:

My pan also has castellated nuts without cotter pins. _Once or twice a year, when the floorboards are out, I take a couple of wrenches and lay on my back and make sure all the nuts holding the crankcase pan on are nice and snug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 04:43 am:

Hi Tom,

Most bolts, on the Model T, that are drilled for a cotter pin are intended to receive a castle nut. As stated above the cotter pins were replaced by lock washers on the crankcase to block and transmission cover bolts during '23 or '24. I could look up the date in the Service Bulletins, but it is too late and I am beyond tired.

There are at least two locations on the Model T where a bolt receives a cotter pin without a castle nut.

One is the fan bracket bolt (#3967 and #3967B) which has no nut at all. (Yes, the nuts for the front main bearing should have cotter pins. These have lock washers.)



Another location is the bolt(s) used to hold the gas tank straps around the tank. The bolts have regular hex nuts and they are are Not made tight but only snug. The cotter pin is there to prevent the nut from backing off too far if it should loosen. The reason for the bolts to be just barely snug and not tight is to allow some movement of the straps on the tank as the car is driven over rough terrain and the frame flexes. If the straps were tight on the tank and the frame flexed greatly, the tight straps could twist the tank and possibly deform the tank or worse, cause a soldered joint to open. I apologize for these less than good pictures, I only had a cell phone camera at the time. Bill






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 11:26 am:

The early mufflers had no castle nut, only a plain nut and cotter pin. The late mufflers did use a castle nut and cotter pin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 03:17 pm:

How in the world did you old timers (been doing this 50 years or more)ever manage rebuilding a "T" before the internet ! But I guess I just answered why a great number of these cars are a real hoge poge of years and unrelated parts, I'll try to keep mine presentable but no awards ! My age alone qualifies me as an "old timer)I still use "form-a-gasket" Now to get back to installing all the window glass !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

A lot of people lived in a Model T vacuum (some still do!) not knowing right down the street was a really "old timer" that worked on T's when they were new. :-) Model T's, there were plenty, was just an old car that came out once or twice a year for the town parade so it just had to look nice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 07:54 pm:

Come to think of it, If I or anyone, did now what they did then, well it would work but there would be a lot of eye rolling ! thank you vendors, I can have some parts in 24 hours ! How long did it take "in the day"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 08:19 pm:

I think the real ramp up in our knowledge of the Model T started in mid-November of 1995. At that time George Deangelis donated the films of the engineering drawings and the record of change cards for all Ford vehicles from 1903 through the mid 1950's. I can say that once we had those records available for study, research on the Model T greatly expanded, and we had much more reliable data on what changed and when.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess


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