Permissible Deviations from Model T Ford Service Manual

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Permissible Deviations from Model T Ford Service Manual
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 04:53 pm:

I believe that there are numerous repair methods that are nowadays, considered acceptable and even recommended over and above some of those that are detailed in the original Model T Ford Factory Service Manual. Of course, there are other publications such as those recommended by Steve Jelf and others that cover many more modern methods, short cuts, and improvements over those intended by Henry Ford and his engineers, but nowadays, we have numerous very experienced Model T guys that collectively, have a wealth of knowledge that would be a handy "collection" of very beneficial "tips" for all of us "shade-tree" Model T mechanics.

Even though the original factory service manual is sometimes affectionately called,...."the bible", I really don't believe that Henry and the engineers intended EVERYTHING in that book to be strictly adhered to a hundred years after it was written! In fact, I don't believe they intended, expected, or actually, really cared if Model T Fords survived for a hundred years plus!

Anyway, I just thought that a "collection" of favorite tried & true MODERN methods and procedures would be a handy and helpful reference for all of us if some of them could be gathered up and listed here on the forum. I have a couple favorites that may or may not be just "personal opinion" on my part, but I'll start it off with a couple that I really believe in, that you won't find in "the bible"!

First, I really, really believe in a modern "three angle valve job" when restoring or replacing valves & valve seats. I also believe in the modern carbide cutters for valve seats that I think do a better job than the old valve GRINDING equipment that is still used by many very good engine rebuilders. To me, valve seat grinding and hand-lapping is "old school" and can, and should be, replaced by modern equipment (read carbide cutters) and what's really nice is that it is "hand work" that can be very successfully done by any "T guy" with any mechanical aptitude at all.

Second, the recent very interesting post on tightening up rod bearings certainly serves as a good argument against the original manuals detailed instructions for filing connecting rod caps.

So, there's two that I'm aware of that I feel are worth considering,.....anybody else know of any others?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert L. Rogers on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 05:20 pm:

Well, I believe in hand lapping valves (to a point) as it requires minimal equipment. This means it is cheap - which is what I appreciate. Plus it brings a certain connectivity to the past. Call it time travel if you will.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 05:29 pm:

RE seat grinding with modern tools. If you have a gauge to check face run out which should be -.002" after cutting you could get by with just cutting the new face(s). If you don't. Then even using modern cutters, lapping them in is still your best bet to get a concentric face between the valve and seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 10:59 pm:

That book is not a repair manual at all but a time study to keep Ford dealer mechanics in line. Ever notice how some of the descriptions are a bit vague? Almost as if you're supposed to already know what you're doing ? That's because you were already working for Ford and this book was used to increase productivity. This job takes this long and no longer. It's used today as a kind of Motors Manual but wasn't designed for that purpose. What you're calling short cuts and tips was the way most back yarders worked on these cars. Cheapest and easiest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 09:07 am:

Any kind of valve job benefits from hand lapping afterwards. Hand lapping is also a way to restore a worn engine to get a few more thousand miles out of it before the next overhaul. It's a good thing to know how to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 11:20 am:

The Ford Factory Service Manual is not always 100% correct either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 01:51 pm:

Royce - Fully agree with you, however, on page 8 of instructions which accompany Neway Valve Seat Cutting equipment I found it noteworthy that Neway particularly specifies in words to the effect that the carbide cutters leave an ideal surface or texture that is ideal for valves to seat properly during the first few seconds of engine running after new seats are cut with their equipment. Assuming that they would certainly want valve jobs completed with their equipment to be successful, I'm pretty sure that they know what they are talking about. Again, certainly hand lapping could not possibly hurt anything; it's just that Neway states that hand lapping is not necessary after cutting new seats with their equipment. That being the case, I just think that not having to introduce the abrasive compound necessary for hand lapping, and thus being able to eliminate the then extremely important step of very careful and THOROUGH cleanup to ensure that "ALL" potentially damaging remaining abrasive compound is removed from the engine after the valve job is a real time and trouble saver. FWIW,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

One thing you must conform with is that you do your work in the time specified in the shop manual.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 12:03 pm:

Harold

additionally, the folks at Neway are very nice and know about our club, the uses of their product on our cars, and can even suggest the correct combination of cutters for "T" uses. They are really nice and accommodating of questions


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 01:30 pm:

Scott - That's exactly the experience I had with them, probably 12 or 14 years or so ago. Thought that after careful study of all pilots, etc, etc available from Neway, that I knew exactly what I wanted when I called them to order. After discussion with Neway personnel, I not only learned a lot, but was advised exactly what to order from them, which resulted in actually, spending less money that what I had originally intended. Glad to hear that they are still obviously very honest and helpful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 02:53 pm:

I use Neway cutters then lap valves because the engine runs better that way. That is what I was taught to do, and it works.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration