24 touring sheet metal lower patch panels

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 24 touring sheet metal lower patch panels
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 10:27 pm:

Does anyone know if there are patch panels
for the lower 4 to 5 inches of the body
where it rusts out all the way around the car available, I've searched and only found some pieces for the front. The rear rounded corners
behind the rear wheels are rusted out, they
seem like they're gonna be a challenge to fabricate or do you have to make the pieces
yourself? I'm rusty all the way around the
bottom but it doesn't look like I'm finding
the patch panels. These panels are available
for every car, I cant believe they aren't
available for the model T. thanks, Doug


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 07:14 am:

I have a set of touring panels complete without rust-out for a '24-'25. Would be easier than patch panels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 07:44 am:

John, you think removing the entire sheet metal panels off the car is easier than welding on a 5 inch piece to the bottom? I thought the whole idea of patch panels is to make it easy:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 10:30 am:

Doug,
It all depends upon at what stage of restoration you are. By the time you get the rusted panels trimmed, removed from the wood, welded new panels, reattached to the wood and all the resulting body work....??
Unless you are good at welding and body work?
John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 01:19 pm:

?Doug,
Simple answer to your question: YES! As John pointed out, you will have to remove the panels to weld in the patch, or you run risk of burning your car down! On the Improved Ford, there's no wood there, so patch panels are the answer. However, originally there being more than one body supplier, the replacement panels may need some fitting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 02:50 pm:

The wood can be easily shielded while you weld so you wont burn the car down, plus you only plug weld patch panels on so you are not creating a lot of heat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 03:19 pm:

as you all know i used to fix lots of bodies, you won't believe how maney pop rivets i had to take out.ha,ha. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 04:44 pm:

John that's my intention, to get good at body work, the welding I already got down. This is my project, I'm taking my time and enjoying myself.
yes there is gonna be a lot of things to learn along the way but I will get it done with help from this forum of course!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 06:05 pm:

With a little practice you can hammer form your own. I made patch panels with compound curves to fix holes in both of my 24 touring rear quarter panels. I did mine by eye. You could use a wood form to your advantage to form the entire rear corner. I also hammer formed doublers for below the rear door. I made a wood form for these. I attached these with JB weld and spot welded them with my wire welder. The heat from the spot welds set up the JB weld and made a nice assembly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 06:21 pm:

Hey Ted you have any pics of the work you did. I kind if figured I would have to form those corners myself, that's gonna be a challenge but I think if you own something almost a hundred years old you are going to have to fabricate some things yourself


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 10:21 pm:

My body work pictures have disappeared into my archives somewhere. I think you can make your parts and have fun learning and doing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 08:03 am:

Doug,
In spite of my initial comment about replacing the panels...I commend you for your attitude and supporting the spirit of model T restoration...do it yourself, learn by doing. I see too many T owners that can't or won't do anything that requires skills development....easy to have it done or buy repro parts.
Thanks,
John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 10:41 am:

Not everyone just plug welds patch panels on. Some very carefully weld the entire seam so the repair is not visible from the front, and barely visible from the back. I've seen this done by wire-welding and by the good-old hammer welding with a torch.
Me? I try to take the repairs to one of those guys that does such good work, I'm not that talented with welding!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 12:34 pm:

Here are some I made for my '14. Simple wood forms were made. You probably don't need the beads on yours.
Rich




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Monday, August 22, 2016 - 05:10 pm:

Thanks guys and Rich nice idea with the wood I think I will try that:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 01:25 am:

Richard,
That's some very clever work, very nice!!
An artist in metal as well as on canvas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 09:05 am:

Doug, depending on where the patch is, a person can use one of the step flangers to make a "lap joint" that sets flush. It helps with warping and makes a good joint. There are at least three styles I know of. One is a set of jaws/dies in a vice grip pliers, the other is a small "hand roller tool" that will "roll" the step flange into place (there is also a larger bench roller that rolls beads and step flanges" and then there is also a "pneumatic/air step flanger. By having the joint overlapping, it makes it easier to align the panels because it allows you a little give in positioning the joint. With the overlap/flange sitting behind the seam it also is a good backup for the weld. I think Eastwood tools has them....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 09:13 am:

Yes Donnie I have the pneumatic tool, it also punches the holes for the plug welds. thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 09:42 am:

Doug to answer your question, Howell's sheet metal makes patch panels for your T.

Their website is www.fordoor.com.

Langs sells T sheet metal for T's. They may or may not have them in stock.

Howell's is slow but they do sell on Ebay from time to time and that may be the fastest way to get them.

If you call them you might?? get a response.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 10:04 am:

in all my years i never saw anything that fit from howells. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 10:52 am:

Good thanks Charley that answers that question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 12:20 pm:

Rich's method works very well...I do the same on my repairs and get very accurate replications of the form...

the one I'm holding in my hand was more complicated in getting the form just right and it served as a good jig for welding (was a very interesting band-saw project with a constantly increasing tilt on the saw blade)

all parts turned out far superior to what could be purchased (if they COULD be purchased)

good luck!






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 12:31 pm:

That is some beautiful work Scott, thank you for that


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 12:41 pm:

When some people look at that they just cant see the beauty in it. I love that and can certainly appreciate what went into making it. Thanks Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 12:42 pm:

You're welcome Doug

you can do this, too, if you just take some time

here is the completed panel in place prior to prime




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 01:10 pm:

Great pictures of nice work Scott. If you need a cheap way to make lap joints this is a method I use. It's just a piece of sheet bent to suit. A press or hammer does the work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 02:01 pm:

Must be something wrong with my T's. The sheet metal that I bought Howell's fit.
To each his own I guess. Maybe its in the fitter upper on some T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 02:25 pm:

John - I was wondering why nobody until you, mentioned Howells. I purchased patch panels from Howells (thru' Langs) several years ago, and I have to say that it was a perfect fit. This was to make the exact repair that Doug Keppler mentioned. The bottom edge of my '23 Touring had rusted out and this repair was extremely successful. (....done by one of our local club members highly skilled in body work) Only two minor problems with this,.....I had to buy a pair (one right side panel and on left side panel) and only really needed the one, however they were not all that expensive and I gave the other one to a club member who needed it. Also, the only trouble with Howells, and there has been much forum discussion about this, is getting Howells to ship what you order. Again, my order was several years ago, and I bought the patch panels thru' Langs, and that was while "Trish" was still working for Langs, and believe me! One of the many attributes of "Trish" working for Langs was that she could certainly get Howells to process and ship an order efficiently!

Anyway Doug, last I heard, Langs still lists patch panels in their catalog, and I'd sure give Langs a call as they still list the ones you need and again, I'll bet Langs would have a better relationship with Howells than any of us "individuals",.....FWIW,....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 02:31 pm:

Doug - I guess I should have said that,....Howells has at least SOME of the patch panels you need, and I'm thinking that you might be able to "modify" or, add metal to some of the patch panels that Langs list, easier than fabricating a whole new panel yourself,.....again,.....FWIW,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 07:12 pm:

Harold - I guess the thread got a little off topic but there was a lot of good advice and ways to repair what you have with other pieces of sheet metal.
That's why I mentioned Howell's as a source for sheet metal for T's for those who want to buy what they need instead of making it.

Anyway its available for those who want to buy replacement panels. You may have to wait a while to get it. Some do and some don't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 - 05:15 am:

Harold

I'm glad you had success with Howell's. You are not the only one that I've heard that sort of result. Myself, I found that what I purchased (through Lang's) did not fit at all and was too far out to modify. Appears that there may be some variability or inconsistency in some of the products.

Some parts that I've seen first hand are gorgeous, while the patch panels I received were not (and I reluctantly returned them).

The bulged corner at bottom rear of the '19 roadster is a part that no one seems to make (except for 26/27 model). I figured if I had to make that, I'd just make everything else, too

And Richard...that's a very clever way to make a lap joint...I always appreciate seeing how other folks do things! Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Friday, August 26, 2016 - 06:19 am:

Several here have just proven that Artisans do still exist!

Thank You for sharing. You are inspiring a new generation.


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