Timer lever adjustment question.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Timer lever adjustment question.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Miller on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 09:18 am:

My T is a '24 and I have a New Day timer on it. When I adjust the timing lever, I do not notice much difference in the performance of the engine. All the way up will cause it to sputter some, but 1/3 to full does not seem to make much of a difference. I originally thought I had too much slop in the linkage, but I did some work to tighten that up but it did not seem to make much of a difference. This is my first drive-able T, so I do not have much in the way of comparison. Maybe it is normal, but it does not seem correct. Any suggestions on what might be causing this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Conklin on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 09:36 am:

If your running on magneto the timing changes in 16 degree steps due to the spacing of the magnets. If you are running on battery the timing changes directly with the movement of the spark lever.
Probably others can explain this better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Adkisson on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 09:37 am:

I find the advance to make the biggest difference when pulling up a hill, my 15 likes full advance then; otherwise it acts similar to yours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 09:44 am:

Flat level road? No, not much change at all. Besides the timer's actual movement isn't huge. It isn't directly related to the hand lever's movement at all. Starting & hill climbing will require changes but crusing steady not much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Miller on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 09:52 am:

I have been running on magneto. I just rebuilt the transmission, and fixed the magneto in the process. Since then I have just used the battery for starting at this point. I will try it on battery sometime and see if I notice a difference. Sounds like I might be concerned for nothing. Maybe I will notice a difference if I ever drive it up a hill, those are little hard to find in my area of the country. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 10:59 am:

My 26 is the same, glad you asked
I was wondering . May be I don't have a problem .
I'm running on battery . When I shitch to mag it runs rough .
Maybe I should try adjusting lever more to see if it will smooth out.
My 1st T so I'm listening
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 11:55 am:

I have a New Day on one of my T's and it runs just like the other two which have Andersons. The first thing you must have is tight linkages. You should not have slop in the rods. I have found that with the New Day, I can make a small shim and wrap it around the end of the rod where it goes through the timer and a very thin washer on the rod to keep the shim in place. That will take up slop at that end. You must also adjust the rod so that the spark comes just after top dead center with the lever all the way up. Each brand of timer is a little different, so the standard method of measuring the center of the bolt to the rod is not correct for a New Day. See other posts on how to set the timer. It will explain methods to determine the spot.

If the car misfires on magneto, either the magneto is weak and needs to be charged or endplay taken up in crankshaft, or the coils themselves are not adjusted properly. You can test magneto output with an analog AC volt meter and a light bulb. See other posts on how to test magneto output. See other posts on how to adjust the coils, or send them to Ron or other person who will do it for you. If the problem is in the magneto, it will usually smooth out at higher speeds but misfire at idle because the output is lower at idle.

Another thing about running on magneto, If the spark is too retarded, it will not run smooth on magneto, but will run smooth on battery.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 12:23 pm:

The timing of a Model T running on the magneto changes in 22.5 degree steps as the spark lever pulls the timer to a more advanced position, not 16 degrees as stated above. 360 degrees divided by 16, the number of magnets and coils on the magneto coil ring, equals 22.5 degrees of separation.

In relation to the crankshaft, the 16 coils on the magneto coil ring, produces a peak spark at three useable points: 4.5 degrees after TDC, 18 degrees before TDC and 40.5 degrees before TDC. However, a Model T ignition coil is an electro-mechanical device and it takes a short but significant amount of time for the coil to produce a spark after it reaches the 4.5 ATDC, 18 and 40 degrees BTDC points. Since the flywheel and crankshaft are rotating a a relatively high rpm, by the time the spark reaches the cylinder ignition tends to occur a bit late.

Most people find that they use the 4.5 degree ATDC for starting, then pull the spark lever down into the 18 degree BTDC range for the rest of the time. The 40 degree BTDC range is too far advanced for most Model Ts to take advantage of.

Of course, if you are running on battery, or using a distributor, none of what I have written above applies.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 12:36 pm:

Timothy, if the car you're talking about is the one that's in the photo in your profile, I think I can see where your problem might be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Miller on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 01:51 pm:

I also wrapped a shim around the rod on the timer end and on the other end a previous owner had cotter pin instead of the proper driven pin in the connecting eye. Fixing that also helped with removing some of the slop.

Thank you also for all the good information. I will double check my positions/timing again.

Michael, Your comment made me laugh. The one in the picture is my 25 Touring, which I inherited from my uncle. It is that one that started us in the hobby. My son is really interested in T's, and it has been our father-son project. We have started the engine on that one, and then started looking for body parts. I met Dan Hatch at the MAPWSM in Luray, and eventually ended up buying another T from him. It was meant to be parts car, since the engine was seized. Since two T's are better than one we decided to get that one running and will probably turn the one in profile picture into a hack body. My question was about the one in this picture.


(Message edited by tdmiller12 on August 31, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 03:47 pm:

Yeah, that's a lefthanded c-clamp on the righthand side ... bad mojo ...

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 04:21 pm:

Another thing is this. Have you experience driving other Model T's? They only have 20 HP and shift from low to high, so they are a bit slow starting out, but gradually pick up speed and have good power at around 25-35 MPH. They will slow down when climbing a hill but hold their speed at about 22 MPH at a 6% grade. You will also notice a difference when driving alone without a load and it will slow down with each passenger added. There is a hill on the way to my house that I can pull in high when I am alone, but when others are in the car I have to shift down. The body style is also involved in the speed of the car. A roadster will be faster than a touring and a sedan will be slower than a touring. It depends on the weight of the body and the weight of the load.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Miller on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 10:10 pm:

Garnet, it took me a little while to get your comment, but I did. Also funny.

Norm, I have very little experience driving a T. I was able to drive it a few times and then the transmission went out. We just got it running again. Thanks for all the advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 10:43 pm:

Timothy, you have phenomenal dedication to the hobby. Bringing your son in at an early age is a wonderful thing to do.


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