Hi all, It has been several years since I posted on the forum. I have been involved in many other projects that have somewhat kept me away from my 26 Touring.
My dilemma, I have recently met a widow through a mutual friend in the car hobby that has a 1915 Model T Touring for sale.
My friend and I went over to her house and spent some time bringing it back to life after sitting for over 7 years.
Now the vehicle is up and running once again.
My problem is, that this 1915 looks correct to me from the little knowledge that I have of the brass era cars. However, there are simply too many items that make it maybe not so correct in my eyes.
1. It has a 1926 motor.
2. It has a Ruxstel rear end.
3. Someone has painted the body navy blue. However the fenders are painted black.
Everything else appears to be 1915 brass.
The lady was asking 20k for it recently. Lowered the price to 15K. No takers so far.
I am attempting to come up with a reasonable price to give her a chance at selling it. However, I don't really know what to look for to confirm that this vehicle is really a 1915 with an added on later engine. The car presents itself as a very well done older 20 plus years restoration.
Can anyone help me out on this matter???
Pictures would help us offer you a thousand words or is that are worth a thousand words?
Tom, you're in the right place to find answers; pictures will help. Get closeups to show the condition of the paint and brass as well as the particulars of the wheels and engine.
I believe a Ruckstell Axle is a plus, as long as it's working well.
Any information you can find about what work has been done to the car will be helpful, too.
The 3 things you listed aren't a total bust. The motor, (obviously not orig. so not exactly a plus in some eyes), was perhaps an upgrade to a starter engine. I don't see the Ruxtel as a problem at all. As to the color, well, buyers picking point. Decent running titled brass car? $12 to 15 G's easy.
Tom, it seems like a lot of early T guys with '16's got brass tops and doors and called them '15's.Since the engine and rear end has been changed,I'd go to the next tier of clues.Get pics of front end rear spring, take out the floor boards so we can see the controller shaft. A whole bunch of pictures. 15k would buy an authentic 1915.This is likely a collage of parts. Nothing wrong with that, but not worth big money.
I type so..... slow...... and get interrupted.
Does it have the correct frame for a later brass era car? Does it have the channel iron style running board brackets that go across the frame and riveted on? If it does than its a 15 body on top of a much later frame. It should have the bolt on individual running board brackets on it if its correct. Could it be a 'assembled from parts' car?
If it has the correct frame to start with its a plus. The brass T's need to be more correct to bring a good price than the black T's.
Going by your description its sounds like a $12,000 car to me.
As Jay said, please post some pictures. It might be a really nice car.
A lot of '15s are really not real, but conversions. The one you are speaking of is probably one of those.
If it's a made up 1915 with a lot of later parts, you may be down in eight-to-ten-grand territory, depending on condition. Pictures, pictures, pictures.
Maybe some suggestions here would apply: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG100.html
To Correct John's statement: the forged running board brackets were originally riveted to the frame, not bolted. Yes, there are a LOT of details that make a '15 or a '16 authentic, What needs to be determined is if it is really one, or just the body, fenders, hood, radiator of one. Two minor clues; the cowl top does not have a half-moon cut out to clear the radiator support rod (gotta look under the hood former to see) and the upholstery that wraps around the top edge of the body does not have metal end caps, just the upholstery folded over the ends. That's just off the top of my head--oh and the windshield to cowl brackets are riveted to the windshield frame, not screws.
Thanks everyone for the great information.
Yes, I will see if I can get out to the car and take some pictures. Funny that now I carry an electronic leash (cell phone) it never dawned on me that I was also carrying a camera!
Besides taking pictures, I was looking for as many of the single items that one would find that define an early brass car of the 1915 vintage. Now I have some more things to take a look at thanks to the comments.
Yes, the engine was no doubt updated to a 1926 to add the starter.
When we got it started on 6 volt battery, I switched it over to magneto and it ran fine albeit it took quit awhile for it to run smoothly on all four.
Next trip out is to do some well overdue maintenance and take some pictures.
Hopefully I will have them posted by the middle of next week if not sooner.
Thanks again, Tom
Aside from mechanical condition, three things to consider are the condition of the paint, top and upholstery. -If the paint isn't faded or chipped and has no drip-runs; the top hasn't any rips or large, objectionable stains, doesn't sag and meets the windshield correctly; and if the upholstery had all its little buttons, isn't threadbare and has no rips, that's "good condition."
When I bought my car, the previous owner described those three criteria as "okay," which was a completely honest assessment. The paint had a few large chips and the beginnings of patina. -The top had a few small tears and stains on the interior. -The diamond tufting on the seats was uneven, missing a couple of buttons and they had been re-upholstered with foam instead of springs. -They'd also been overstuffed to the point where side-to-side room up front had been sufficiently compromised that two adult occupants would be tightly smooshed together. -I guess that's "okay condition." -Well, I bought the car and couldn't be happier with it.
Sometimes, an original car in great condition will just appear out of nowhere, like when a couple of years ago, a guy here on Long Island let a bone-stock '15, in outstanding condition, go for ten-grand. -Somebody who was in the right place at the right time really got one hell of a great buy.
My impression is that the brass Fords are getting a little harder to come by lately, even the '15s (based on what I've seen lately in the classifieds). -People just seem to be holding on to them. -You'd think that would jack the prices up, but it doesn't seem to have happened yet.
A lot depends on what it is you're after, because when it comes right down to it, what a car is worth is what it's worth to you, the buyer. -If you want to put the car in your museum and leave the hood up so visitors can appreciate the fact that the engine has the appropriate number stamped into the block, then this isn't the car for you. -If you are interested in a fun driver with some utility, then maybe that 1926 engine could be considered a plus because of its electric starter. -A Ruckstell rear isn't exactly the end of the world, either, especially if you see yourself doing parades.
To me, it sounds like the car you described, in very good running condition with shiny paint, a clean top and upholstery would be worth about thirteen grand, even if it were not a "real" '15. -But of course, that's just a guess on my part without having seen the car.
Adding a related question because this setup sounds so similar to a T that I inherited. 1915 T, but with 1926 engine (I noted above that 1926 can accommodate a starter which I have). I also have the engine / transmission which I believe is the original 1915 engine. That extra engine is buried in the back of a storage area so would take some time to dig out and get engine number. I do recall that it's fairly close to 1,000,000. Just a little below or above.
My question is how important keeping that spare engine with the car is. I'm not selling now, but might in the future. Eager to see the results of the sale above.
Charlie, absolutely hang on to that original engine.
Hello friends..I have a 1915 Runabout and was hoping to fit a foot starter, is it possible? Any help?
It's possible to fit a starter. This could end up being a long discussion depending on what parts are already on your car and will take this thread off topic.
You probably should start a separate discussion thread. There are many previous discussions on this topic such as flywheels, firewall modifications, battery carrier, etc.
YES, hang on to that engine--keep it with the car!! I would think especially if it's under 1M; I think my '16 is special because it's one of the first Million--but I could just be thinking odd about that.