Is it me?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Is it me?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brooks Schlieben on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 10:48 am:

Have Model T Ford prices been tanking over the past year, or is it the summer doldrums?
Or are folks simply listing them too high, then settling for less later?
Maybe it's just me.
I get the mark up dealers pile on, but it seems as if the market is getting soft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 10:52 am:

Supply and Demand. Who can tell?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 10:53 am:

Brass ones seem to keep climbing. Black ones seem to keep up with inflation. Crummy ones are hard to sell. Nice ones are easy to sell.

I have noticed that brass era parts are getting harder to find and more expensive as time goes on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 11:07 am:

Yes, the market is somewhat depressed at the moment I believe people are waiting to see which one of our to two outstanding presidential candidates gets into office come November. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 11:08 am:

Hi, I hope the prices on model Ts stays low so anyone and everyone can afford one. Too many things such as oil and gas signs get so high not many people can buy them. The main thing in the old car hobby is to have fun and enjoy them, not worrying about the price.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 11:15 am:

I hate to say it, but that dollar bill in your pocket is not worth the dollar it used to be worth. Almost everything gets marked up as time passes. A dollar does not buy much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 11:17 am:

Mark, all the more reason people need to be buying Model T's, be it their first, or their fifth! They pull you out of a depression quickly. No matter who gets their mail on Pennsylvania Ave. the next four years, we're in for one of the roughest roads this country's seen since the Civil War.

Bob, unfortunately I can't agree with you entirely, but I do get your point. Obviously since I'd kinda like to peddle my beloved museum quality '15 it would only be fair, not to mention respectful to the car, to obtain a higher price for it. To buy a driver or even a barn find and duplicate this car would cost someone far more than they would then get out of it. Like you said, "not worry about the price". We only live once, and life is very very short.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 11:29 am:

Mark,

I like your comment, and agree with you. However, I fail to see the logic in
holding off on buying something I need or want on account of a blowhard or
a career criminal in a teflon pantsuit, as I would not give either of them a ride
in my T OR buy parts from them !!! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 01:43 pm:

What Burger said!!
(If I said "Dittos" folks would think I listen to a certain loud-mouthed entertainer. . . . )
:-(and actually I don't--at least not anymore--he did start out in Sacramento on the radio station that's on my clock-radio alarm, soo I am familiar with him. He's actually a nicer guy than his persona indicates!) But I digress. Prices go up, prices go down and sometime you luck out--just bought a RR book at the third day of an estate sale for $1. Market value? about $85 to $200 and it was still there on the third day!
Like real estate; it's all about timing, timing, timing! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 04:02 pm:

If you want one and find a good one for a reasonable price, buy it. Unrestored and in poor condition are lower in value but unrestored in good condition are considered by some to be better than one which has been restored. There are many good ones out there for sale because the previous owners either don't drive anymore or have passed away and their family don't want a T.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 04:44 pm:

My "theory",.....it doesn't matter what you pay (within reason that is) because generally speaking, most vehicles are really not a good investment, however, I see no reason that over the "long range" that Model T's will continue to appreciate. You can get "screwed" on a piece of "modern iron" by paying too much, but if the same thing happens with a "T", you'll still be okay in the long run. Just my opinion, YMMV,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 04:52 pm:

What's your idea of low? 8 to 10 years back I picked up 3 (one at a time). Quite nice cars ( a Tudor & 2 Touring's) and paid WELL under 7 each. The Tudor and one of the Touring's were very nice, ran and needed almost nothing. Try that today. In my book their up. All of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 05:30 pm:

I'm with Bob Peterson. I'm not in the hobby to make money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 07:19 pm:

And a lot of it is, has, and always will be a regional thing. Over all, brass stuff has been scarce, always, except I have had more luck than most.When I regain reasonably full function, if the scrappers didn't steal the junk,(their bodies would never be found if caught) I'm going to be dragging a 12-rivet clamshell out of the brush. Don't anybody get excited yet. I don't have it in hand, and the people that have this stuff are singularly unfriendly to strangers, and money means little to them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 07:34 pm:

I am mostly with John and Bob.

It is not about the money.
In my case it is working on, driving, and sharing the cars that my dad owned with my grandchildren.
Ok I spend most of my free time working on them.
The 2 do list gets longer everytime I do something on them.

It helps that we have the complete history of the T and it is our sweetheart vehicle, but the A will be my wife's car.

I spent the last 4 days putting the motor back in the A and find that I don't get upset when I find that I need more parts.

I actually look forward to the weekend and spending 8-10 hours each weekend day on the vehicle projects! In many cases it is like I am working with my Dad.

Today I told my wife that I will most likely spend more time working on the cars than driving them and she said it was OK as long as I liked working on them


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 07:55 pm:

sorry double post

(Message edited by Nhusa on September 05, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tt newbee on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 08:05 pm:

As a newbie, I am surprised at the low price available on running T's. I suspect a lack of demand because younger generations do not have the appreciation of history that goes with the cars. They are fairly simple from a mechanical standpoint for someone who worked on cars made before 1970. But anyone born after 1960 probably has no experience with point type ignition and coils, let alone a Model t timer and buzz coils. My children are in their thirtys and have no knowledge of how an internal combustion engine works. My father could tear down and repair almost anything mechanical, he started with a 1918 Indian. The point is that working on old cars is becoming a lost art, so there is less demand for the cars. I have some experience with '51 F-1's, and due to that experience I do not rebuild carbs or change tires. I had to check with a lot of places to find a carb rebuilder or tire changer for TT. These are things owners did without thinking about it a century ago.

My hat is off to those of you who keep their cars as original as possible. I think those are the ones which will increase in value. A TT like mine is an investment in fun, and will never have high value.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brooks Schlieben on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 08:11 pm:

Interesting thoughts! Wanted to get some opinions from other T-ers. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 08:32 pm:

Fred, that shouldn't be true of the Model A (spending more time working on them than driving them). For a while a Model A was one of our "everyday" cars. I think a model T, once gone through carefully, should also be pretty reliable.
BUT, working on them, for some of us, IS more fun than driving them!
As for prices, well, I'm probably not going to buy anymore cars, but I'm not likely selling any, unless something changes around here. so price up or down, NEH! The cars, and my trains were not bought as investments--except as investments in our own fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 08:38 pm:

If I had bought any of my cars with the idea of making money I'd be the world's worst investor but the Fun Factor outweighs the money factor 10....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Monday, September 05, 2016 - 10:40 pm:

What's the real value of a Model T ? If you consider the monetary point of reference throughout Model T production was the gold standard, it makes for some interesting comparisons. I seem to recall when introduced, the price of a T was around $850. In hard money, that would be around $55,000 today as the spot price of gold is hovering around $1,300.

Henry Ford continued to reduce the price of the car throughout production - again, I'm "recalling", I think a touring car was down to $550. by 1914 - on the gold standard, that would be around $37,750.

By 1926, you could buy a roadster for $265.00 - or a 2016 gold standard price of $ 17,225.

By that yardstick, it seems to me Model Ts are holding their own in "real value", if anything, they are a good buy !

If anything, current economics is on the "oil standard". A model T owner in 1926 would have parted with $1.20 or so to fill his gas tank. Taking the recent high price of gas into account, a T owner in 2015 would have paid near $40 to fill his tank . . . that's an inflation rate over 3200% ! Which makes the adjusted price of a 1909 car $,27,200, or $17,600 for a 1914 car, and $8,480 for that '26 roadster.

Any road, seems the range of current prices are . . . fairly reasonable ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnCodman on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 11:03 am:

The T is an interesting car. It's not really rare enough to be a collector car in the classic sense; most car museums have one, but only because there would be something missing if they didn't have an example of the world's most popular car (at the time). The T really isn't a highly driveable car in the modern sense. I might take an A up the interstate for a couple of exits if I really needed to (in light traffic), but I wouldn't even consider it in my T. Most T owners that I have seen are looking back at age 50, and most are doing the same at 60. Younger folk want something faster and easier to drive then a T. I really doubt that a non-brass T is likely to appreciate faster then inflation, and possibly not even that. If I was purchasing an old car to make a profit, it wouldn't be a T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 12:06 pm:

I haven't read all the entries here so I don't know what the general consensus is. However, I've been hearing for the last 30 years how the prices on Model T's have been dropping, nobody wants them, can't give them away, etc., etc. Well, if all that's true, we'd have to be paying to have them removed by now. Also odd that any T I'd like to buy seems to be pretty pricey, at least to me. Maybe I'm cheap, most T guys are you know, (been hearing that too for the last 30 years. Maybe some truth there though).

Anyway, it seems most of these prognostications of doom are offered by those who feel the need to make weighty predictions in order to give the impression of being "in the know". Not picking on anyone here. Most of the gloom and doom seems to come from outside the T hobby. Maybe they're jealous of our fun?

It doesn't matter to me what they're worth. If it's all about the dollars then they just don't understand the hobby. I hope the value of T's is such that anyone who wants one can reasonably afford one.

P.S. John Codman,

"The T really isn't a highly driveable car in the modern sense."

Just got back from the Ohio Jamboree of T's. A 425 mile round trip, (including tour miles), in my '25 Touring. Found it to be "highly drivable".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 12:44 pm:

Oh, wow Jerry, wish I'd have run into you during the Jamboree. Well, figuratively speaking of course. What a great weekend of driving it was.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 01:15 pm:

Tim,

Me too. I had the tired looking metallic blue Touring. It was my 26th O'Jam. One of my favorite tours and the only one I still drive the T to, no matter where it's held. I love driving in Ohio and the folks who attend the tour are about the best anywhere.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 01:33 pm:

I have to agree with Jerry and his assessment of of the Model T's drivability. I just returned from running some errands in town with my '24 runabout. It is plenty drivable. I haven't yet driven it on the interstate and likely would not for more than an exit or two and never during "peak" times. The Model T is just fine for running about.


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