Every Model T Timer ever invented.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Every Model T Timer ever invented.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kirk on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 12:54 pm:

While doing a search on timers I came across a page that has photos of what seems to be every type of timer created. I'm sure some of the regulars are aware of it but some of the new people, like me, might find it interesting.
There are ten pages showing all sorts of timers.




http://www.modelt.org/mtfcivb/showthread.php/132-Ford-Model-T-Timers-Archieve

I find these two interesting


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 01:36 pm:

The 3 with the 'armored 'wiring harness look like Turner 2-In-One to me. The bottom is an elevated timer I am not familiar with. I had,might still have a Thomas timer elevator. It took a standard timer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 01:41 pm:

The one on the right is a KW timer. They work great. I have a few of them. Internally they resemble a New Day timer.

The ones on the left also resemble a New Day Timer. I have one of those new in the box. Never tried using one but they look like a well made product.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 02:07 pm:

Les Schubert is going to reproduce the gears for the KW. They are great timers. Not a distributor, more of a timer elevator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 02:11 pm:

I didn't have time to look at all of those but I have a bunch of different ones. I think they are like carburetors -- everybody had a better idea on how to improve the Ford!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 02:30 pm:

I think the KW timer elevator is the best design I have ever seen for a timer and here is why;
1. Yes it uses a sliding brush for selecting the cylinder to fire BUT
2. The actual firing/timing event is controlled by a set of points that is helped to survive by the inclusion of a condenser
So the arcing that occurs as the brush makes contact is eliminated. I have pondered the idea of adding 4 condensers to the timer connections of a ordinary timer. Probably install them at the coil box terminals

KW timer elevator gears project; I own two of these timer elevators but don't actually own any of the gears that go on the camshaft. Dan Mceachern is prepared to make the gears as soon as I come up with a drawing. Obviously borrowing a gear would be a LOT easier!!! Hint hint!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 02:39 pm:

The Turner 2-in-one used a wipe contact like a New Day. Probably related somehow. My luck with New Day type timers has been abysmal.And then some. My timer 'collection'has to still be around somewhere. Royce, when was the all bronze roller assembly phased out? Would that have come on a car with the cast aluminum timer? I know right where one of my bronze rollers is. Might still have a cast aluminum timer shell, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 03:01 pm:

Les--I am going to put the word out among my non forum-ee non computer-ee friends of the need for a gear to copy.Any identifying characteristics if one is on the front of a camshaft somewhere? Any interchange with another 'distributor '?I know I have seen in recent years one of these in a friends stash. Whose?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 03:03 pm:

Jim
Hopefully Royce can help us with picture or details


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 03:12 pm:

Les, I have been looking for the one that has the gear tied on to it with a little fine wire. You've seen the mess and you probably can figure why I haven't found it yet. I'll look again tonight. Working on a carb today. That one's not yours either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 06:02 pm:

Les I have at least one KW gear at home. Will send a PM on that.


Jim I think the bronze timer roller assembly was used by Ford through about 1918 or 1919. I have a number of them with Ford script, which usually means after 1918. The roller itself was steel, the spring loaded mechanism holding the roller was bronze.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 11:03 pm:

Royce
Thanks and I have replied
Stan
Stay busy!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 11:05 pm:

I just realized that the KW I have is a fancier version with a considerably higher top cap. I try to post some pictures tomorrow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Tuesday, September 06, 2016 - 11:28 pm:

I'm the "regular" that started the timer thread on the MTFCI forum. If any of you have a timer that's not covered in the thread by all means add a photo along with any other data you have.

Les, Here's a photo of the cam gear that came with my KW unit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kirk on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 02:55 pm:

I have a question about all the ads listed in the timer website from MTFCI.

Does a timer really make a difference in performance? They all made claims like runs smoother, more power, saves fuel and starts better in cold weather. I guess that one is possible if you live at the north pole and the grease freezes, but does it really matter other than reliability and maintenance.
A timer is just a rotating switch, it's either on or off, the only difference is how that is accomplished.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 04:53 pm:

I see that the two KW s I have are quite different
Apparently they actually function a bit like a distributor, but then again not!! Apparently they replace the points on the four coils, but the four coils are still retained.
So much more than a timer elevator, but also not a distributor!!
Thank you Jay for the info at the bottom of #69 on page 7


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 04:58 pm:

I also see that I do have at least one timer that has not been posted. It is made by the White Brass Castings Co. of Chicago. I have actually used it and it functioned very well. I'll try to post a picture tonight


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 07:27 pm:

Peter,
The design of a timer certainly does make a difference. Contact bounce can interrupt the current rise in the coil primary at a critical moment. Then there's the question of cylinder to cylinder timing. If the contacts do not close at exactly the right time then that varies. Even if the contacts are precisely set to begin with, mechanical wear of the contacts will change this over time. The Anderson is particularly susceptible to this kind of wear. There was a thread recently on how to re-adjust this.
Of course, one can use the E-Timer for perfect cylinder to cylinder timing and no mechanical wear ever. Having driven with a roller timer, a couple of Andersons, then a TW, and now an E-Timer, the difference was quite noticeable between all of them. For new mechanical timers, the TW is highly regarded because it does not vary the timing as it wears. I'd tend to agree with that from my own experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 07:44 pm:

My New Day wiper timer has more wipes on it then a tractor trailer load of Charmin and still functions great with almost zero maintenance.:-)


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