**1917-1927 Ford Ignition Coil Assembly**

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: **1917-1927 Ford Ignition Coil Assembly**
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 02:04 am:

Coil assembly...According to Ron Patterson, there is no fiber washer under the adjusting nut on the brass half of the of coil points...however, there are two such washers provided in the kit from the vendors and the hole in this piece is larger than the shaft the nut screws onto because it's a clearance hole. Which suggests that there should be a hard fiber washer or some sort under this nut to push against.

The one thing this drawing doesn't say is that wires A,B and C are never touched, they remain connected in their original positions whilst replacing the capacitor and wiring its to two wires to E,F and D connections.

Now Ron suggested that I actually show these wires attached a their respective locations. The problem is, it clobbers the drawing making it harder to read because of the addition of all those extra line. I think that the letters are self explanatory. And if you need to see a clearer representation...refer to the color cross section in the upper left corner.

The instructions are written (I think) pretty clearly and written by Ron himself. Following those instructions you cant wire this thing wrong.



As always, if anybody has any suggestions (other than hooking up all those wires) and or corrections, I'd appreciate hearing from you. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 07:44 am:

1917 coils are molded from a soy fiber material. Ford went back to wood some time in 1918. Looks nice Martin!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 07:48 am:

Martin,
You are great.

Thanks

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 08:19 am:

Royce, I thought so too, but from what I understand from Ron Patterson, Ford made them both ways...this coil is actually a K-W coil drawing I saw and it said it was from K-W and was a update sketch, that had three dates one it, the date of the drawing is 1915 and the two change dates are both in 1922.



This sketch is titled SK-2202, the 22 is the year of the change and it's sheet 2 (wish I could see sheet 1). All this sketch does is identify the parts of this assembly for factory use only...you wouldn't have been able to buy parts to replace anything inside or for your coils other than points, so it was obvious this was never meant to be released as a vendor supply parts list. There is a Ford versions of this drawing in Ron Patterson's Article "The Model T Ignition Coil" Part 3, last page, down towards the bottom of the page.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 03:23 pm:

Here are a couple photos of the 1917 - 18 version.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 04:43 pm:

Kingston must have made some gluten coils too. There was, and possibly still is a NIB one in an antique mall in Kokomo.One of my friends spotted it. I think they had $75 on it,he called me I said buy it. He about had a stroke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 05:03 pm:

Having set up lots of coils (though far far fewer than Ron!), I have found that they work best (on the Strobospark) with no fibre washer but with a locknut against the adjusting nut. The adjusting nut is usually 3/8"AF, or even 7/16"AF, and the lock nut is usually 5/16"AF - but they are all 10-32UNF thread of course.
The lock nut also deters random 'fiddling'!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 03:19 am:

Royce, so the standoffs are molded into the case itself? also looks like that primary coil well also has a molding around it too. Hmmm, this would be a fun one to draw...look at all that "gingerbread" on it.

How come nobody has tried to reproduce this coil in a more stable plastic casing...I know the gluten case became dimensionally unstable in heat and just the normal running of the coils themselves would cause them to loose structural integrity. The other problem with this coil is that it's molded in two pieces and not 6 and glued together...the case and the door. I wonder if the wedges inside are also molded in as well? The separator might be still glass or wood I suppose though and maybe the to spacing wedges between the glass separator and the coil assembly are probably still wood though (would be the cheapest route).
Showing such an assembly would be challenging...but I think I'll give it a try anyway...just for the hell of it. :-)

Chris, is it that with the fiber washer under the adjusting nut, that you don't have enough threads to make the adjustment? Or that you don't have enough threads to add a lock nut also? Ron says there is no washer there, but the kits all come with one for it and I've got an old K-W coil here with a fiber washer on it...I've also got a Kingston coil and points too, it doesn't have one because it has a flanged thumb nut for adjustment. Were they that bad or is it that the K-W's are just better and have a lock nut to discourage tampering?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 05:15 am:

Martin,
It's just that you are trying to get it to produce single sparks reliably every time it fires, with a current of about 1.3A.
If you don't get that, you have to adjust the lower point tension, the cushion spring tension and the adjusting nut until it works properly.
I find that it's easier to get this ideal state with the upper contact in hard contact with the adjusting nut, and locking it is even better.
Often, the sound of the coil changes when you lock the nut, so there must be an effect.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 05:16 am:

I should add that I do use a fibre washer below the contact, on top of the spring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 05:45 am:

Here is a coil I came across a few years ago. I do not know the story on it. Anyone here know anything about it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 08:09 am:

Someone had waaay too much spare time to do that. If it's silicon it would be interesting to know how long the connections last.


Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 08:57 am:

Ok, I've made what I think are reasonable changes based on what's been said here...



The changes are...changed 17-18 as year of manufacture, took out the top fiber washer and thickened the glass separator a wee bit.

As always guys, let me know what you think and if you see anything else that need changing, please let me know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 09:14 am:

The "cast" case coils made of Wheat gluten with asbestos as a binder were an effort at cost reduction of making ignition coils for the Model T. Production started in July 1916 and terminated in March of 1918 after it was determined the cast case was dimensionally unstable.
The all wood case coils (without the metal top) commenced in June 1917 and continued till the end of Model T production. The Ford script branded on the wooden box first appeared in March 1919 and was used till February 1923 when the Ford script was moved to being rolled into the top edge of the wooden case.
The cast case coil and wood coil with the metal top were made concurrently.
A complete Ford/KW coil chronology may be found in the Vintage Ford Volume 34 Issue Number 6.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 09:25 am:

Ok, I'll change it back...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 09:57 am:

Oops
My post above should have said: The cast case coil and the wood coil without the metal top were made concurrently.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 06:31 pm:

Something I forgot to mention...

I forgot to mention someone when I posted that I got most of this information from a 3 part article.
It was written by Trent Boggess and Ron Patterson.
About the "Model T Ford Ignition Coil" a three part article about "The Ford/K-W Ignition Company Story" published in the Vintage Ford (not sure of the volume, I got the articles directly from Ron as 3 PDF's) magazine...if you haven't read them and you're curious about the mystery of the ignition coil...this three part series will answer any questions you may have, plus give a really good run down on what coil was made when and by whom with some really good pictures too.


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