Hard to start, starts on 2 cylinders.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Hard to start, starts on 2 cylinders.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 11:46 pm:

1919 Roadster is hard to start lately, and seems to start on only 2 cylinders. When I throttle up and advance the spark, it seems to run fine on all 4. This just started. What can it be??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 11:52 pm:

Intake manifold leaking at the block maybe.
Check to tightness of the clamp bolts.
Another good test is to spray some diesel starting fluid (ether) at the joint. If the engine changes how it runs you have found a issue!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 12:16 am:

That could be it, I had the manifold off last week, and it is warped and hard to seat. I have a new one on order with new gaskets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 12:17 am:

I had the exhaust manifold off not the intake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 01:12 am:

I got in trouble for spraying ether the other day. Better use WD-40.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 12:45 pm:

Steve
Good point. I thought afterwards to suggest to be sure to do it outside and remove the hood from the car. My excuse is it was late and I was tired.
Jonathon Considering that you removed the exhaust, there is a high probability that the intake was "disturbed" and no longer is sealing well


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 01:58 pm:

Could I use a propane bottle to check for leak? Turn the gas on low and run it against the manifold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 02:03 pm:

Jonathan,
The danger here is in a backfire igniting the testing gas. WD-40 isn't a volatile as other sprays.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 03:46 pm:

Jonathon
No I would NOT use propane as you suggest


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 05:03 pm:

It's hard to remove the exhaust manifold without somewhat upsetting the fit of the intake.. I think you'll need new copper crush rings as the others suggests :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 05:29 pm:

Did you use new gaskets? Also did you tighten all the nuts evenly and after it was warmed up tighten them again? The manifold gaskets tend to settle just like the head gasket and needs to be tightened again after the car has been driven.

If the problem is not in the manifold it could be in the timer, spark plugs or coils. But since you had the manifold off recently, that is where you should look for trouble first.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 09:46 am:

Yesterday I sprayed WD40 around the intake and I didn't hear a change in the rpm. Today I checked the manifold nuts and I was able to tighten 3 of them. No time to try to start now. Will try later


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 10:45 am:

Well then it is most likely ignition. I would start be cleaning inspecting the timer.
Actually maybe slowly crank the engine and make sure each coil buzzes. Inspect the spark plugs
My favorite expression; 90% of my carb problems have been ignition!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 11:51 am:

If you are running roller type timer;
Broken spring on roller, at higher speeds the centrifugal force spins it out against the contacts. At lower speeds there is not enough force to maintain full contact. Or the timer needs to be cleaned. That's my guess(es) for today! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 03:45 pm:

I slow cranked it and each coil buzzes. To remove and clean the timer, does the radiator need to come off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 04:18 pm:

Jonathon
No


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 05:18 pm:

Can I just say that I'm a newbe. In fact I'm 18 and the first and only car I own is the 1919 Roadster I have now! These forums have been so helpful! Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 05:35 pm:

Jonathan, remove the cotter pin from the timer rod then loosen the bolt on the spring that holds the timer on and lift the timer off. Check and make sure your coils are snug in the box and the bronze terminal fingers have good contacts with the solder buttons on the coils. You might need to build the buttons up with solder a little to get a good connection. Do you have pictures of your car? I'm sure we would all like to see it.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 06:07 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 06:17 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 02:12 pm:

What a sweety! And your first car! That's cool.
Did you get a chance to get the timer off? The first time is the worst to get it off and clean it all up. Perhaps you have enough wire so you don't have to take any wires off. :-)
Don't forget to oil it after you put it back together. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 02:24 pm:

Do you use oil or grease?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 02:36 pm:

Book says oil I believe for a standard roller timer.
http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG93.html Scroll down to ignition.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 02:43 pm:

Jonathan
Is it a roller type or? Roller needs lubricant
A brush type should be DRY!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 03:00 pm:

I'm not sure, didn't take it apart yet. Can I tell what kind without taking it off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 03:22 pm:

Nope, sorry. It isn't hard to remove the timer cover - first, remove the cotter pin and pull the timer rod away from the timer body. Then, just loosen (don't remove) the bolt that holds the timer clamping bracket and swing the bracket down out of the way. You can then pull the timer cover off and pull it up to where you can see the insides. The timer cover will still be attached to the four timer wires, so don't pull it too far!

You will also be able to see the roller or brush assembly on the end of the engine camshaft.

If you decide to do this, please take pictures of the inside of your timer cover and roller/brush so that we can see what kind of timer you have and provide further guidance. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 03:26 pm:

Jonathan
If it is a plastic case then it is definitely a brush type
If it is a steel case then it MAY need lubricant. There are brush type in steel cases.
Hope this helps


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 07:01 pm:

I just did a compression test. From the radiator back 45/50,45/50,40/43ish,35/40, with a rapid spin of the crank. But what is strange is the first 2 with best compression were very dirty and "wet" And last 2 with worst compression were very clean and dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 07:51 pm:

You have a vacuum leak at one of the intake connections at the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 08:27 pm:

Should I be concerned about the compression readings,and how they differ? My dad and I are going to do the valves over the winter so we'll see what happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 08:42 pm:

The ones that are wet are way rich. The wetness probably bumps up compression a bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 09:17 pm:

Could be a leaking intake. I check it with starting fluid.. when u find the leak the engine will rev.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 10:18 pm:

Could be a leaking intake. I check it with starting fluid.. when u find the leak the engine will rev.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 10:19 pm:

Sorry bout the second post. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 - 10:50 pm:

Jonathon, When you put the timer back it needs to be centered on the shallow ring on the timing gear cover. You can feel when it is in the right place. The roller spring will often try tp\o push it off center. Being off center is a good way to get your car firing on less than four cylinders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jonathan Delancey on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 08:01 pm:

Thanks that's great to know. But 10 seconds after it's started it runs ok on all 4.
The car was sitting somewhat idle for a while, sure it needs an all around tune up
(ignition,valves,carb/manifold)I will get around to it eventually!


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