Old Photo - Ladies In A Early Ford

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Old Photo - Ladies In A Early Ford
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 09:09 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 09:41 am:

Great photo of a 1907 Model "R" Jay!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 03:38 pm:

Note the bicycle carbide light she is using for a headlight. I imagine the next time he buys a car she will make him get headlights even if they scare the horses.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 06:15 pm:

Did someone say bicycle lamp?


1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 08:51 am:

Nice collection Eric, Thanks Jay, I love your photos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 10:47 am:

Good Lord Eric! That's way too cool. Love to have one!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 11:13 am:

That is a great variety of lamps Eric. The Steam car guys like those to illuminate the gauges at night.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 11:47 am:

Now that's a dash light!

Cool collection Erik.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 12:35 pm:

Yup, Love those bike lamps! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 03:43 pm:

Nice Lights!

Bottom Line Up Front:

1. If possible I would like to obtain a higher resolution copy of the photo (that is true for most of them – but this one in particular).

2. I’m 99.9% sure it is a Ford 1907-08 Model S Runabout rather than the 1907 Model R Runabout. They look very similar from the side view.

For Jay,

Thank you so much for all the great early photos you post. In this case I really appreciate it, as one of the items I have been researching or I’ve been curious about is the paint scheme on the 1906-1908 Model N, R, S, and SR cars. We know that they had several variations over time and by model. But in this photo we can clearly see that the frame which is exposed under the hood -- was painted a dark color. I assume it was the same as the body color – but that is an assumption. And we can clearly see that the other chassis parts, front wheels, front axle, and front spring appear to be painted a lighter color. Other chassis parts such as the rear wheels, rear axle, rear radius rods, etc. are not as obvious in that photo. But it has been the frame color that has been so hard for me to find and document. And it clearly is shown as dark under the wooden hood shelf below the hood.

If you happen to know where I might be able to obtain a higher resolution copy of that photo (or any other N, R, S, or SR ) that shows the frame color (ok – black and white photo – so how the shade of the frame compares to the shade of the body color) it would be greatly appreciated.

For Royce,

Even Ford used the same side illustration to describe the Model R Runabout (mostly 1907) and the Model S Runabout (later 1907-1908) as shown below from page 3 of the “1908 Ford Price List of Parts and Instruction Book – Ford Models N, R, S, and S Roadster” that is shown below:



Both the R Runabout and the S Runabout used the same chassis, fenders, oiler, etc. Four areas that were different between the size of the Model R Runabout and the Model S Runabout were the wheels, body, paint scheme and the Model R Runabout sold for $750 dollars and the Model S Runabout sold for $700. The Model R Runabout used the more expensive 30 x 3 clinchers wheels and tires and the Model S Runabout used the smaller less expensive 28x 3 clincher wheels and tires. The major visible body difference was the Model R Runabout had a larger rounded deck while the Model S Runabout body had a smaller pointed deck. The initial advertisements/sales brochures commented that the Model R Runabout was all Brewster (dark) green while the Model S Runabout had a Brewster (dark) green body but had a cream colored chassis (ref: page 18 of the “Ford Motor Cars 1908 Models N, S, and K.” -- Clymer Reprint 1951 also from the 1911 Ford Times anniversary issue on the 1903-1911 cars reprinted on pages 46 & 47 of Stern’s “Tin Lizzie” as well as page 21 of the “Antique Automobile” Jul – Aug 1979 Vol 43 No. 4)


Below is a close but not exactly to scale comparison of the Model N & S Runabout turtle deck to the Model R Runabout turtle deck:



And a couple of photos showing how the rounded Model R turtle deck goes straight back before it begins the half circle that it ends with. These are off the internet from: https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=1907+Model+R+Ford+Runabout+photos&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004 and are used for educational purposes – i.e. to help tell the difference between a Model R Runabout and Model S Runabout. [Note the Henry Ford has a nice Model R but it has the 28 x 3 wheels of the Model S Runabout (also the Model N Runabout) and it is finished in the typical Model S Runabout cream running gear. Possibly because the 1907 Model R Runabout sales brochure had a Model R with that color combination printed on the front cover?)]





For all:

By the time the Model S Runabout was introduced the Model N bodies were slightly larger than the earliest 1906 Model N bodies. I don’t have a good cut over date for when the smaller Model N body was replaced by the slightly larger Model N body. And with most Ford changes there would have likely been some overlap when both style bodies were used. It could have been as late as Aug 1907 but I suspect it most likely occurred earlier. I just don’t know for sure.

That slightly larger Model N body is listed in the pamphlet “1907 Ford Price List of Parts for Models N, R, and S – also Some Instructions for Adjustments, Replacements of Pars, and for Properly Driving and Caring for the Car.” There it is listed for “BOTH” the Model N Runabout and the Model S Runabout. But there is not a date on the pamphlet. So we only have 1907 from that pamphlet. From a comment Trent Boggess made back in 2003 we know it is a 1907 drawing. But hopefully it will have a date so we can know if it was early 1907 (i.e. Jan) or later 1907 Aug. Why not later than Aug 1907? Because the Model S Runabouts using that body began shipping Aug 12, 1907 (car # 17 & car #18) according to Trent’s Early Ford Database. I’m 100% sure that body drawing is of the shared body used by both the Model N Runabouts and the Model S Runabouts and that continued to the end of production. But I would like to know how early in 1907 it was drawn. If any one happens to be near the Benson Ford Archives and can look up the Factory # 1013; Part # 1030 body drawing of the Model N & Model S body – it should have a date on when it was drawn and/or revised. While that is not necessarily the date the bodies began being produced, unless it is a revision – the bodies should have been produced after rather than before that date. Where to look? They are part of Accession 1701 which is a very large accession. They are either with the 70mm flat film located in boxes labeled “Pre T2, 3 and 4.” Or they are on reel number 32 or 33 of the 35 mm film reels located in “Reels Box 8 – Drawings.” (Ref the introduction to Trent’s Early Ford Database.)

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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