Engine change 1914

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Engine change 1914
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 10:23 am:

The engine in my '14 has been running great, but the transmission has developed a nasty habit of eating the low band every 2 - 300 miles. I decided to build an entire replacement unit to save down time. With luck this should be done in about a day. Hope to be driving it tomorrow afternoon, and get 100 miles on it before the Texas T Party that starts the last weekend of this month.

Here is how it looks right now. I just drove it in the garage:


The new engine is ready to go in except I will need to use the hogshead from the old engine:


I will post progress photos later today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 10:44 am:

Hope it all goes well, please post pictures when you're done and let us know the cause of the low band issues (cracked drum?).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 02:46 pm:

Good bye old friend!


First I removed the floor mat and floor boards as the oil and anti freeze were draining.


It started out slow. Had a seized bolt on one of the engine mounts. Had to slice the nut in half with a high speed disc.



Pulled the hood, steering column, radiator, and firewall.


Pulled the bolts that secure the pans to the engine, removed the starter, carburetor and fan. Disconnected the exhaust and the wish bone.



Now it is time to swap the hogshead and go the other direction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 02:59 pm:

Looking good! Do you have an old tire or something you can set the old engine onto while you use the cherry picker on the replacement engine?

Will you be swapping the bands from the old engine to the new, or do you have a new set of bands to install on the new engine before you swap the hogshead over?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 04:49 pm:

Those early cars are sort of a PIA cause you have to remove the dash. Nice thing is it sure is easy to work on when you do get it off. I'd install the bands when it is out of the car and you can sit on a nice seat while working.

Thanks for posting!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 07:21 pm:

Gene I've had the radiator and dash out of my '12 in under 2 hours. Really not that bad considering how much easier it is getting the engine in and out. Better than on my '15 any day!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 08:04 pm:

I took the hogshead off the engine that came out. Guess what I found. These drums were turned down to remove pitting and grooves. I won't use either of the non cracked ones again.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

I used the Kevlar brake and reverse bands from the other engine on the brake and low for the new engine. I installed a "new" Montgomery Wards Riverside band on the reverse band. Plastic Ty- wraps hold the bands in place.



I cleaned out the hogshead, scraped off the old gasket, and installed the pedal holding tool. This allows me to install the washers and nuts on the pedals before installing the hogshead. No chance of dropping anything.




The hogshead drops right into place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 08:14 pm:

Had a setback right after installing the hogshead and adjusting the bands. As I tightened up the magneto post one of the screws broke off. Of course it broke off flush with the hogshead.

I carefully drilled it #40, then used a #1 E-Z Out to remove the screw. I taped a magnetic screw driver handle under the hole in case any shavings came out the bottom of the drilled hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 08:15 pm:

Got the engine all back together and it is as you see here ready for me to resume in the AM.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Friday, September 09, 2016 - 08:58 pm:

And, we didn't have to pay any tuition for the lesson. Thank you Royce.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 07:04 pm:

This morning I was plenty stiff from yesterday's festivities. A friend came over about 9:00 to help me get the U-Joint slipped into the output shaft. Here it is immediately after settling into place on the frame:



From there the two of us wrenched, stopping for lunch of course.

About 3:30 PM we had enough things installed to try the engine. After a bit of cranking and a carb adjustment it came to life. After letting it loosen up for a minute or two I flipped the switch to MAG and it speeded up considerably. Here's the scene a minute after switching to MAG - there is smoke coming off the engine from our greasy hand prints.



We let it run for 10 minutes, then dropped it down to idle speed. A very sweet sounding engine. The temp gauge showed 150 degrees. I shut it off and we continued assembling.

Here is the end of the day photo - almost ready to drive. It just needs some safety wire on the U joint bolts and the wishbone cap before the test drive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 07:37 pm:

Great job, good luck on the test drive! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Royce,

Thanks for sharing your photos and experience. Good luck on the tour!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 11:12 pm:

Looks great Royce...One thing i never knew about was to grease the front mount. When i had mine out, it was dry and put it back the same way. You learn something new here everyday. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 09:27 am:

John,

The front mount is a bearing. It needs to be bare metal coated in grease. It is also the electrical ground for the engine. The mount needs to be snug so that the engine nose does not bounce around, but not so tight that it cannot rotate. If it cannot rotate the nose of the pan cracks and eventually sags.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 12:26 pm:

Royce,

This might be a dumb question, How wouldn't the engine be grounded in more places than just the front mount? I never gave it any thought until I read your above post.

Thanks,
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 02:42 pm:

David,

Of course the engine is grounded in a dozen other spots. The front mount is simply the largest area in terms of surface contact.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Hagerty on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 02:55 pm:

Royce,

That makes perfect sense.

Thanks,
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 03:29 pm:

Royce
Hope you have fun at the Texas T Party. We had a great time in 2001 when we were there. Texans know how to have fun and Texas BBQ is great food!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 05:59 pm:

Finished up all the safety wiring. Then drove it around some with the floorboards out, to adjust the bands properly. Did several short drives and removed the transmission cover a few times, fine tuning the adjustment each time. With the brake lever halfway forward the car can be easily pushed forwards and backwards. The low band is smooth and locks up right on the floor. Brake pedal will lock the rear wheels forwards or backwards.

About 1:20 it was ready for a lap around the neighborhood. The transmission is utterly silent. It runs smooth but is down a bit on power, being REALLY tight on the bearings still. I can barely turn the engine over with the crank handle, it is a blessing to have a starter right now. The first drive I made it about two miles then had to stop to let it cool. The last drive it seemed like I could have run it out of gas and it was not going to get the temp into the boiling range.

About 20 miles total today, uneventful and feeling better as each mile goes past.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 06:11 pm:

Let's hope it stays that way - great thread! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Monday, September 12, 2016 - 12:12 am:

Does your new engine have a Scat crank? I also have a replacement engine (Short Block) for our 13 with a Scat crank but have not installed it yet. The old engine is still running great having an early crank....hope it hangs together for the Texas T Party tour.
Look forward to meeting you, getting to know others and having fun in Texas.
Hope the weather is better than the last HCCA tour that I went on in Kerrville Texas two years ago. Froze my butt on that one.....Smile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 12, 2016 - 06:47 am:

Les yes it ha a Scat crank. Looking forward to meeting you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David L Corman on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 11:11 pm:

Low drum is discolored and cracked due to being very hot, Band must have been dragging. Was band out of round or adjusted way too tight or have you been doing a lot of parades? A filter under the transmission door will direct more oil to the drums aiding cooling. A very nice car you have there, Royce.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 10:07 am:

David,

Yes, those are the same questions I asked myself. The low bands in all my cars are adjusted so engagement is as close to the floor as possible. I kept adjusting it on the last drive which was ( I now know) obviously after the band cracked. The heat was likely from driving it 100 miles with a cracked drum and metal on metal band engagement.

The band in question looked normal, but as a precaution I used another one from my shelf of spares.

The car has always had a filter.


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