Ot-1908 Model S at Branson Auction listed in Hemmings

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Ot-1908 Model S at Branson Auction listed in Hemmings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

Nice early Ford

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/model-s/1873122.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 02:51 pm:

This car does not have its original engine. Original S Roadster engine/serial numbers only went up to about 3800. The engine with the serial number 5369 was originally in a Model N.

So far as I can tell, all S Roadsters came equipped with Heinze coils and boxes. It is difficult to say what this coil box is.

The kick panel below the front seat did not open or lock the one on this one does. On original NRS cars the space right behind the kick panel is occupied by the gas tank. Access to this area is obtained by removing the seat cushions, and Doris beneath the cushions. Just behind the gas tank is suppose to be a wooden box that holds the batteries that power the ignition.

The side lights are E&J flare sides, which would be appropriate if the tops are marked "Patent Pending". Many flare sides are marked "Patented Dec, 1908" which is after Model S Roadster production had ended. Model S Roadsters did not use E&J tail lights. Instead they used Gray and Davis Model 15s - at least according to the records in the Benson Ford Research Center.

1908 Model S Roadsters used a mechanical oiler powered by a spring belt (think old style screen door spring) driven off a pulley at the front of the camshaft. I don't see the pulley or the belt on this car.

The carburetor is not correct. 1908 Model S, and Model S Roadsters were equipped with Holley Model W carburetors.

The valve plugs are reproductions made from brass bar stock. Originals were machined iron castings.

There is no drip pan under the engine and transmission assembly.

The front floor mat is incorrect, although it is the right color -white.

The wheels look a little small to me, but this could be an optical illusion. The car should have 30X3 tires all around.

The car is pretty, but needs a correct engine, carburetor, coil box, tail light, drip pan, probably a mechanical oiler, floor mats, and the front seat riser needs to be redone. It may need correct wheels and tires. None of these things is readily available or cheap. Bid accordingly.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 02:55 pm:

Just to set the record straight, this is a 1908 Model S Roadster. It is not a speedster.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 03:06 pm:

Interesting text in the ad....

writer does acknowledge that "a total of 3750 examples were made....", yet continues to state that "...no. 5360, presented..."

?????

Thanks for all the other facts Trent!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Balough on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 03:10 pm:

The starting crank rest is also upside down. It should hold the crank in the upright position


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 - 04:52 pm:

Thank you Trent B for pointing out so many details of this S (SR?). IF I may add a couple questions. To me (?), the body doesn't look quite right. Something about the cowl just doesn't look right to me. I was also wondering about the hood and the adjustment doors? Are they correct for the S? Or one of the other NRS series? The hood variations are something I just haven't been able to get sorted out in my head yet.
The front seat of the car up for auction also doesn't look quite right to me. Interestingly, when I went to look at the Hemmings link, they had another link at the bottom of the page for another model S Ford as a "Find of the Day".

https://blog.hemmings.com/?p=101016

This one, the cowl and front seat look more correct to me. The rear seat on the other hand???? Also, the wheels on the second car appear to be 30X3, I agree that the wheels on the first car look like 28X3.
I would guess that the first car is either an assembled-from-parts car, or maybe an N that was upgraded.
Again, Thank You Trent B for trying to educate us lesser folk.
And another request from me? To anyone better with computers than I? Could you copy the photos from both these links for future reference?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 09:49 am:

It is difficult to say much about the body of this car. The body has almost certainly been redone. The evidence is the presence of the door in the kick panel of the front seat. Also keep in mind that distortions appear in photo graphs that are not present when seeing the car in person.

One of the things I find interesting about the advertisement is that all of the photos, with the exception of the close up of the triple twist horn, are taken from or show the left hand side of the car. I wonder what the right hand side looks like? I wonder what the right hand side of the engine looks like?

As far as the hood is concerned, the pictures show only the left hand side. The door in the side is correct. It is positioned so that by opening the door you can get easy access to the carburetor. I have a Holley Model W on my 1907 Model N. Although a Model W does have a lever that will depress the float to enrich the gas mixture, I find it easier to cover the air intake on the carburetor with a red shop rag and my right hand. With the switch off, I will pull the crank over two half turns, and this is sufficient to start the car with the next pull and the switch on.

Model R runabouts, Model S runabouts, Model S roadsters and later Model Ns have two doors in the hood, one on each side. The right had side door proves access to the oiler. Model Ns have pressure feed oilers while the other three have mechanical oilers. The right hand door allows the driver to check the oil feed (and I ALWAYS check the oil feed before driving the car) without removing the hood. And since the hoods on all NRS cars are one-piece hoods, it can be challenging to take the hood off or to put it back on without scratching the paint somewhere. Without pictures of the right hand side of the hood there is nothing more we can say about the hood on this car.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, September 14, 2016 - 03:10 pm:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make the following statement. I think this is an N chassis with an S body & fenders added sometime in the past.

1. Engine has a higher "N" serial number, as Trent points out.
2. I think the wheels are small too, like an N, (28 x 3).
3. Body tag has a number matching that of the engine. While an engine swap in the past would be a very likely, all to common, event, having the matching body tag would be unlikely. Unless this were a sad little N, with matching engine & tag, needing a body, and some long ago restorer decided he'd spruce it up a bit by making an S out of her.
4. Body does not look right to me. The rear box upon which the M.I.L. seat sits looks way big. Supports the body swap idea above.

It's all just speculation unless better photos can be seen.


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