I received my beautiful Model T Times yesterday, and was reading the article on the 1912 that won the award, and I would like to comment on the grease cups pictured on page 11. I'm aware that there were several companies supplying grease cups in 1912, but I don't believe the ones shown were used that early. The fan grease cup pictured was used much later. It should have a solid brass female shank. Also, I don't believe the shape of the grease cups is correct either. They had an irregular cauliflower pattern. Secondly, if the car came with fore doors, they should be on the car, not off to one side for display.
Weren't those doors an option at the time? Stynoski is as it came from the factory.
Maybe there were points off for the grease cups but still enough points to win I guess. It is a beautiful car and most worthy of the award.
It's possible that those things were noticed during judging, but were not enough of a deduction to prevent the award from being given.
No matter the minor flaws... It's a beautiful car.
I too prefer the "glass is half full" approach.
Larry, you could post some photos of your Stynoski winner?????????
Discussing another man's grease cup is always a slippery slope!
As the Chief Judge of the MTFCI, I can tell you that the Stynoski judges did a fine job evaluating three beautiful and well restored Model T at the Finger Lakes Tour. In order to win the Stynoski, one must receive a minimum of 550 points out of a possible 600 points. Bob Richmond's Model T received more points than the other two entrants, and thus won the Stynoski Award. The attention to detail that Bob went through to win the award was exceptional, and his car deserved this award.
I am aware that there is no such thing as a "perfect" Model T, and that it takes a great deal of time, effort and, in most cases, money to win this award. I hope that other Model T enthusiasts will aspire to compete for the Stynoski Award as it is an honor to win this award.
Many thanks to Bob Richmon, George Schreppler and Ray Gravlin for entering their cars in the Stynoski competition. It was an honor to see your cars on the show field!
MTFCI President and Chief Judge
There are two ways to interpret this thread - Larry, which was your intent?
Well said, Russ, as it needed to be.
I have not seen Bob's car and probably will never see it in person. However, if he put the time and money into everything else on that car he did on making sure every small detail of the carburetor was correct -- the arm, the choke, the screw cap on the needle and seat, the screws for the venturi cover, the drain, the everything else -- it is as close to perfect as Russ says it is.
Bob's deal with the carb was "Cost is no object, correct is." I probably have at least 10 hours in just the carb drain cock, which I doubt the judges would have noticed had it not had the correct shape of drain arm, but Bob wanted it right so I made a copy of the broken one, silver soldered it to the original stem and blended the seam by hand with a set of warding files.
Somewhere I have a photo of the carb but I don't have time to look for it, I'm working on somebody else's carbs.
I opened this expecting to read something positive and congratulatory about an absolutely stunning car. I should have known better.
I wish the grease cup caps were the only problem with my Model T.
Beautiful car, Bob!!!!
Russ........I think it's pretty obvious you as nice a judge as you are a person.......
This car was absolutely stunning, and to make it even better, after the judging was over, Bob pulled the white tires off the car and installed black ones... And then drove it on the Finger Lakes tour! The timer that Tony Wiltshire made for it is a work of art too. It looks correct and works.
Fellows, thanks for all the complements and criticism as well. As I stated in the article sometimes there is no right or wrong as many parts from different suppliers were used during the same assembly period. You learn new things everyday, and as Larry commented about my choice of grease cups, I used the ones that were displayed on the car because in my opinion and the documentation I had, led me to believe these were correct. By the way the Judges must have agreed as there were no points deduced for these. I did have the brass ones Larry spoke about installed on my car, but learned later they were not correct. It's still possible we're both correct! Thanks again, I'm still riding on Cloud 9! I'm also bringing the car to Hershey as I was Invited to display it in the MTFCI Tent. PS:John W. I like your Slippery Slope analogy!
Are the Stynoski "runners up" given a copy of the point sheet, so they can improve their car and try again next year?
Yes. Copy of judging sheet is provided.
And we have assisted owners in gaining more detail in their efforts. For example on the '23 touring entered (rather nice T), the owner requested info on the extra holes on the top of the firewall. Those were the rivet holes for the cowling felt, that happened to be missing.
I agree with Hal.
I didn't find any faults with the car, which is fantastic. My purpose was to determine the correct type of grease cups used on a 1912! What is wrong with that? Take a look at the two posted in the Times. Those are the ones I'm commenting on. The ones on the car are probably correct.
Glad to hear the intentions were good and noble.
Since Bob said he has both variations of the grease cups, he can keep both with the car and swap them out at shows depending on the prevailing wisdom and the whims of the judges at the time!
Amen. We all can read.
Outstanding cars going for the Gold--Congratulation to all participates.
I guess it helps to know folks here; I know Larry and knew he was looking for answers on correctness. Yes, one could misinterpret his posting as criticism, unless you know the guy! And yes, I could have posted in response, but I figured others would fix it and I had company, so I wasn't going to sit at the computer!! (WHAT????!!!!)
Amazing the amount of details for cars that "were all alike!"
Due to the time that it took to judge the cars at the Auburn show, I was unable to get to see Bob's '12. He did however have it at the AACA show in New Bern, NC. I spent a lot of time talking to Bob, and got to see his car close up. He did an amazing job restoring the car, and should be proud of the way that it came out. His display of the tools, and accessories that came with the car were also presented in a spectacular manor. Bob received his first junior for the car, and I am looking forward to seeing him get his senior at Hershey.
Sure would like to see photos of the grease cups in question.
Glad to see Charlie's post above - I also looked over the car at the AACA New Bern NC show. It was great visiting with Bob and getting some background on the restoration and the difficulty of sorting out all the info. While I wasn't judging that particular class Bob was gracious enough to permit me to use the car to help present a Continuing Judges Education class on the Model T. There were some fantastic cars to use to illustrate all the changes over the years. Bob's car was absolutely deserving of his AACA award as well as the Stynoski.