Need Info On A Garage Sale Model T Radiator Find

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Need Info On A Garage Sale Model T Radiator Find
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 08:27 pm:

So far this is all the information I have on this radiator: "that's an aftermarket Model T radiator....and it is desirable for a lot of people constructing Model T speedsters...that one has had some work done on it, but if you want to know more, post it on the MTFCA "Model T Ford Club of America " site and you'll get a lot of comments!"

Questions:

1. Are caps still made for this radiator and where may I get one?
2. What was the original color scheme of this radiator? I found it like this.

Anything you can tell me about it would be great.

I plan to display it for a while in my man cave. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 08:35 pm:

Looks to me like its what some call a honeycomb style radiator. Maybe for the 17-22 low radiator low cowl black era Model T's. Probably wasn't the red color but a flat or low gloss black when it was new.
If the neck is threaded with fine threads a standard T radiator cap may fit. Others will have more information to give you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:08 pm:

Thanks, John.
The neck is threaded with fine threads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:09 pm:

Replacement for 1909 through 1916. A stock Ford radiator cap should fit.


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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:21 pm:

Not an expert on Peerless aftermarket radiators but they did make replacement radiators for 1909-1916 that had a separate painted shell. I believe they were manufactured later.

The baked enamel would most likely have been glossy, just like the factory baked enamel of the steel hoods, radiators, splash aprons, etc.

Because of the embossed name on the top tank of your radiator a shell is not needed so it may have been manufactured earlier than 1917 and possibly polished brass instead of baked black enamel per the ad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:26 pm:

Like hundreds, or maybe thousands, of other manufacturers, Peerless made aftermarket products for model T fords. In the case of Peerless, that included radiators and speedster bodies.


This Peerless/Ford speedster was at Hershey a couple of years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:35 pm:

Thanks to everyone.

I check the radiator with a magnet and the outer case (red) is steel. The rest is brass or copper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:38 pm:

And I, for one, am green with envy. I had great success with Peerless Radiators,when I could find them. A friend has a NORS Peerless radiator for a 490 Chevy.At one time I considered battling with one of those damn things just so I could use that beautiful radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 09:45 pm:

Here's the other side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A smith on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 10:15 pm:

You need to find one of these dog bone,or winged type caps.Some times they turn up on ebay but the ones i found that have the Peerless name cast in have been 'pot metal' and are in very poor condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 10:54 pm:

Um! Where's the inlet?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 - 11:12 pm:

Good point Mark! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 02:03 am:

There are lots of types of Model T radiator caps reproduced:

https://www.modeltford.com/pl.aspx?t=s&v=Radiator+cap&page=1&pp=100

This radiator seems to be missing the upper water inlet, so it may need major work to be useable - but still of some value as a wall decoration as is :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 08:41 pm:

Thanks to all who commented. I ordered a repro "dog bone" cap. I plan to make this radiator into a "Steampunk" floor lamp. Maybe I'll even post a picture of it once finished. Best to all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 10:05 pm:

One final comment here, this is the only "honeycomb" Peerless radiator I've been able to find online that has this brass plate with this embossing. I've seen many of this shape but most are just painted black. Maybe this is a scarcer type?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 10:57 pm:

All Peerless aftermarket radiators for Model T Fords were honeycomb design.

I believe your 1909-16 replacement is an earlier production that did not utilize a separate radiator shell, hence the embossing directly on the tank.

Later 1909-16 replacements had a separate shell steel shell with embossing and a Peerless script riveted to it.

Your radiator may be rarer than the later style with the shell because less may have been manufactured and sold and/or less actually survive today. Note that the internet is not a barometer for measuring scarcity.

As far as simple historic research Peerless radiators for Fords, did you search Google Books? This is an easy way to get information from period trade publications. The earliest reference I could find was 1917.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peerless+radiator+ford&biw=1240&bih=686&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1909%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1930&tbm=bks

I found an ad on eBay that shows that in 1918 they were offered with a polished brass finish - see below. Later ads lindicate a black baked enamel shell, which I presume meant separate shell.


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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, September 22, 2016 - 11:02 pm:

Below is an example of a later production 1909-16 replacement. The shell is separate and can removed from the radiator. It would have originally been painted black.



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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Friday, September 23, 2016 - 07:46 am:

Thanks Erik, I have been checking all the sales info I can find but so-far none are exact match with mine. My radiator has a brass plate with an embossing unlike all the dozens of examples I've been able to find online and in books. I'm almost beginning to wonder if this was a prototype that led to the common brass designs. In a way that would make sense and explain why this radiator was kept by the family all these years. Hum, interesting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Friday, September 23, 2016 - 07:59 am:

I have a salesmen so brochure for the Peerless products. Can send you a copy if you want it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Friday, September 23, 2016 - 08:21 am:

That would be great, Mark. If you can email it, send it to my art email: dalealanhammond@yahoo.com

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, September 23, 2016 - 10:46 am:

The graphics in automobile supply catalogs didn't always exactly match the final product because the printers sometimes used the same "boiler plate" graphics which became outdated even though the product itself was updated or revised. Sometimes generic graphics were used.

The embossed brass plate on your radiator is actually an integral part of the upper tank, no different than a factory issued, Ford script 1909-16 radiator.

The written description in the 1918 ad I posted best describes your radiator because of the reference to brass even though the graphic is not an exact match. Who knows if what was described referred to a radiator with all brass panels or a radiator with a brass top tank panel and steel side panels? If it was all brass, then I would say it was an earlier production style than yours.

The graphic in the 1920 ad I posted best matches your radiator - note the embossing on the tank - but the written description does not because it refers to a shell which most likely was separate.

Again, the internet is not the be-all, end-all for research. It's just a casual, armchair method. For example, if you really wanted to research your radiator, you would have to go libraries and physically look in period automobile trade magazines and supply catalogs. "Ford Owner and Dealer" would probably be the a great reference to research the evolution of the Peerless replacement radiator for 1909-16 Fords. (Not too long ago, someone on this forum was selling bound volumes covering multiple years.)

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A smith on Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 08:19 am:

Also, by 1927 Peerless added a 'tubular' radiator


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 10:01 am:

Dale

Here is one of those brass front Peerless, these came on the market around 1915 and later versions were made as Erik posted into the twenties. Peerless brand was mfg. by the Corcoran Mfg. Co.

Another popular early brass honeycomb was the Perflex.

This '26 speedster was on the forum a few years ago, note the radiator is the very same brass front Peerless as you found in storage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 02:17 pm:

Dan Treace, was the outer casing solid brass or steel coated brass? Mine is painted red and attracts a magnet so it's not solid brass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 02:27 pm:

Thanks again, Erik Johnson!
I'll look for that book and others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 05:43 pm:

Dale

Don't know details of the speedster radiator in the photo, but exam the photo and upper tank face plate is all brass, and has same wording and Peerless logo as your find.

In the photo the side frame is steel as you don't see shiny brass like the upper tank face, likely similar to your find.

Typical mfg. of brass radiators is for the upper tank to be all brass, the core is probably brass, while the side supports are normally steel for support and strength, sometimes the lower tank is steel too for the same reason. The lower steel tanks can rust out easy though, as many do.

So I think your Peerless is just striped of the black enamel on the upper brass tank, like the one on the speedster, for 'show off' of the shiny brass. The original Peerless radiators were brass but painted with black enamel on all surfaces.



Close up of above radiator, showing the detail of the stamping wording on the upper tank.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Saturday, September 24, 2016 - 09:50 pm:

Great info, thanks a lot, Dan Treace. This covers the whole thing well.

Well now that I have a radiator, all I have to do now if find all the other parts and I'll have my own T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Hammond on Sunday, September 25, 2016 - 08:29 am:

RED? I was thinking about re-painting my case BLACK but then I found this online photo of a 1917 FORD Model T Fire Chief Car.


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