New here and buying my first T

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: New here and buying my first T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, September 26, 2016 - 11:22 pm:

Hello from western NC. I am buying a 1921 Touring and will have some questions. About the car...it has some new parts and some missing parts. The new - new fenders,tires, splash aprons,hood former,grille shell,complete seats, including springs, steering wheel,cowl lamps,tail lamp,drive shaft,hub caps,and top.According to my research that's $3000+ in new parts. The missing - hood ,headlamps,top bows,timer,crankshaft pulley,and crank handle.Most of the missing parts are on ebay now, except the top bows.I have a fabricator friend who could reproduce the top bows if he had some patterns to go by.I don't know if a battery is included, probably not.I also don't know if an exhaust pipe or muffler is there.The body is in very good condition,as is the wood floor boards.It has non-demountable rims.I have a friend that is an upholsterer who will install the top, when I find the bows, if I help.
My first plan is to get the parts necessary to make it run.
Thinking ahead-how does one carry a spare with the non-demountable rims? Thanks and I will have many more questions. There seems to be a lot of people on here with answers, so I am in the right place!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 12:05 am:

Welcome and you are in the right place. You are about to become addicted, may Gawd have mercy on your soul, proceed.
George in Lake Ozark. formerly L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 12:14 am:

Jack Daron specializes in top bows. He may have what you need.

Some folks with non-demountables carry a spare front wheel and a spare rear wheel. But it's easier and cheaper to just carry a spare tube and a pump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 12:14 am:

Welcome and you are in the right place. You are about to become addicted, may Gawd have mercy on your soul, proceed.
George in Lake Ozark. formerly L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 06:18 am:

Tommy,

Since this is your first posting, let me say, "Welcome aboard!" Model T's can be a lot of fun and can introduce you to some wonderful new friends.

If you have not yet purchased the car, I would suggest you have someone familiar with Ts go look at it with you. If you have already purchased it, then I would suggest the same thing, only now they will be looking at the car in your garage. There may be a club near you. Please check out the chapter listings at: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 . And even if there is not a club near you, they may have a member that is near you. There is also a chance someone on the forum may be close to you. There are many things someone who has been around the Ts for a while will be able to notice that you may not be able to easily spot at first.

For example, you mentioned you the car came with a new "hood former." You may have a very good correct part for your 1921 touring. I have only had one cup of caffeine, but the name "hood former" normally causes me to think of the 1915-1916 metal piece that the wooden dash/firewall fits into. You can post a photo of it, and it will make sense probably even to me. But if you have someone familiar with the Ts look at the car, just by seeing it that would answer that questions and many other questions.

Note it takes a little bit of trial and error for many of us to be able to post a photo on this site for the first time. The number one thing used to be to have the file size below about 190kb. I've seen folks say that you now have to be under 250kb or so. But I know if you are 190kb that will not prevent you from posting. And 190kb gives you a lot more resolution than 50kb. So I would encourage you to use a higher rather than lower kb number when you post photos. For a good thread on how to post photos please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/571662.html?1442488318 .

While you mentioned this is your first Model T, it would be helpful to know if you have worked on cars and/or mechanical things in the past. I.e. do you already know to check to see that the engine turns over and has compression? (You mentioned no crank – no problem – chock the car, jack up the back wheel, put the car in high gear and turn the back wheel forward direction by hand (be sure it cannot start – you mentioned it needs a “timer” so for a stock T it would not start). You should be able to feel when the piston is building compression and when it goes over center. Things like that are helpful to check. Or you may already have seen receipts for a recent engine and transmission rebuild and the engine may be in great shape. But knowing your back ground could help folks better answer your questions.

There are also some safety items that I try to post for new owners. In your case since the car is not currently running, you will have a little more time to read over them before they could do you any harm. Please see the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/576808.html the second entry down. It also has a link to Steve Jelf’s excellent recommendation of good T books to have see: T section at:http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html and the recommended books listed at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html . And that safety thread also has links to free books about the T and web addresses to access them.

In general, I encourage folks to purchase a running and driving T as their first T. Just because it is so much easier than starting with a project. If your car is in good shape and only needs a few things that is much easier to get going than if it needs everything done to it. Please post some photos, ask questions, go for a ride with someone in their T, etc.
Again, welcome aboard.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 09:14 am:

[URL=http://s738.photobucket.com/user/thomc1957/media/0910162001_zpso0jkxgih.jpg.html][IMG]http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx24/thomc1957/0910162001_zpso0jkxgih.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Here is a pic of the car when I found it. The primered part mounted to the firewall is what I was calling the hood former. Maybe that it the wrong name for the part. The title says 1921 and matches the number on the engine. Is the car an older model with a 1921 engine and title,perhaps? All of the primered parts in the pic are new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Laughary on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 09:30 am:

Very nice project. Welcome!

I have only been an owner since June and I have already received tons of good advice from this group.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 09:35 am:

Going by the photo the car is a 21 or maybe an earlier model. T's from 17 onward didn't have hood formers.
The bodies from 15 to early 21 have a lot of similarities and a lot of parts will interchange.
It appears your car has some mismatched parts if its a 21. The fenders look to be correct but cant tell what is or isn't without more photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 09:50 am:

Tommy

Congrats on your new T. Appears the body is in good shape, as rear door seems to align well, most issues with old T bodies is the wood frame that needs to be still strong and firm.

Your hood former is correct name, but incorrect for the year of your T. That former is from '15-'16 years only, and made for the small brass radiator style hood.



The proper hood would fit directly onto the wood firewall upper edge on the face of the body.

Your wood firewall may have some damage there or maybe just the prior owner didn't know a metal hood former was incorrect for the year of your body. Seems to have all '21 features to me.

Nice project!





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 10:56 am:

Yes all three doors seem to open and close well. The hood situation concerns me though.I suppose the reason that there is no hood on or with the car is that there is not a hood that will fit with the former and grill shell combination.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 11:18 am:

Is the fix to just remove the hood former and try to fit a hood without it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 11:39 am:

Hello George from Lake Ozark: Well Monday at my Cardiac-Rehab meet the word Missouri was mentioned and I said the word Missourah, and this nurse said is it Missoureeeee, I told her not what I learned when I was a kid in Wright county.
If I hear people talking about going back east to Missouri it is always with a ah. Thank you for saying the way I remember it, back in the time from 1945 thru 1953 and in later years!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 12:15 pm:

???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 12:48 pm:

Yes, you can take the 15-16 hood former off and sell it to help pay for a hood. That shouldn't be hard to find. But since this car has had some unorthodox alterations, find out for sure whether it has a 17-23 low radiator or a 24-27 high one.


Measure here.


The low radiator correct for your car is just under 17". The high would be a little over 18".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 01:46 pm:

You mentioned you want to get the car to run and you can with the later high radiator. But you need to determine as Steve said which radiator you have for sure to get the hood to fit correctly. You have the correct radiator shell since it has the narrow strip along the bottom. The high radiator cars don't have that. They have a complete apron that covers the entire bottom. If the radiator shell is a good fit to the radiator it may be correct but you need to measure to be sure. If your car was equipped with a starter it will have metal dash with an amp meter and ignition switch together in one unit. A non starter car wont have the metal dash but will have a ignition switch attached directly on the coil box. Go to the 'Encyclopedia' on this website which has all the information you will need to determine which year car you actually have and what parts are correct for that year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 03:11 pm:

I'm confused now. I see listings for 17-23 low hoods. "My" car has a starter and the switch in the dash. Do some 22 and earlier cars have the high hood? Does the body style make a difference in hood style? Where is this "encyclopedia" ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 03:35 pm:

All 17-23 cars had the low hood. Your body and radiator seems to be the low type. Post more detail pictures and we'll be able to pinpoint the years on the parts more exact. No idea why the previous owner put the 15/16 hood former thare? Maybe a start to backdate the car with a all brass radiator and an even lower hood?

With the switch in the dash and the style of front engine mount it has it looks like a 1921-22 Touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 03:59 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/intro.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 06:36 pm:

Tommy- go to the MTFCA home page. (this websites home page). There you will find the column on the right hand side of the home page. The Encyclopedia is on the right side. LOTS of information there.

Tommy the 17 thru 25 T's are what's called the black era T's. They were called that because the only color Ford used in that time frame was black and that was it.

The 17 thru early 23 were called low cowl cars. They had the lower radiators.

The 24-25 cars had higher cowls which had the higher radiators.

This can be confusing at first but will become easy to understand as you get to know your T and other peoples cars! At first they do look alike till you start to notice the differences.

Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Friday, September 30, 2016 - 11:55 pm:

I'm trying to plan ahead for when I get my "new" T.I'm anxious to hear it run. One thing I probably need to deal with though is the driveshaft, a new one, is not installed in the car. I know that without a driveshaft the car has no brakes, except for the parking/emergency brake. I think that before the driveshaft is installed would be a good time to deal with the thrust washers in the rearend. I have no idea if they are the original babbit washers or if they have been replaced. How long has replacing the babbit washers with something better been a common practice, 20 years,30 or more? There's really no way to know whats in there without taking it apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, October 01, 2016 - 12:17 am:

Tommy, there is no real way to tell without taking it apart. You will do yourself a real favor now, safety wise by just tearing it down and rebuilding it and getting it over with. Once you have it done you will have much more peace of mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, October 01, 2016 - 12:59 am:

In the MTCFCA Axle book Glen Chaffin tells you step by step how to rebuild both rear and front axles. Glen is neutral on whether to use the original type pinion bearing or the one from Fun Projects. I'll use the FP bearing every time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, October 01, 2016 - 09:27 am:

Good idea to remove the whole rear axle assembly and go through it. The drive shaft assembly consists of the drive shaft tube which encloses the drive shaft. Now is the time to open up the differential and see what it needs. Repair it and reinstall the rear end assembly back under the car as one unit. Plenty of information on this forum and several MTFCA publications on how to do it.

If you need the drive shaft tube assembly they are fairly easy to find and not real expensive.
Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, October 01, 2016 - 10:55 am:

Nice car with plenty to work with. As you mention getting it running is priority one. A compression test will give much info as to the engine's condition. The bows, top and paint would be last on my list. Don't look too far ahead. One project/job at a time and ASK QUESTIONS here before proceeding with any work. Find and join a local club. (VERY helpful). Good Luck.


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