I am re-wooding a 17 roadster and could use some pictures of wood structure and the seat frame and the rear seat spring. . I also need pictures of the floor board risers , should it have wood or metal floor risers?
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks
Wood plans are available from Leon Parker in Benton, KY. See this thread for email: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/132777.html
Bottom Line Up Front: To my knowledge all 1917 Model T open cars (runabout or touring) would have had a wooden floorboard riser. Are you sure what year and which supplier made your body?
I would highly recommend Leon's rewooding plans. And if you are asking the question if it has wood or metal, there is a good chance you do not have enough of the original body wood to more easily duplicate the piece. See a comment about his wood plans – the last entry at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/198934.html?1300828585 .
The 1915-1920 /early 1921ish open car bodies are very similar and will interchange without having to change out a hood/radiator or firewall etc. You can take of the runabout/roadster body from a 1915 and it will bolt right onto the 1920/early 1921. Door latches, windshield hinges, windshield brackets, a half moon cut out in the cowl was added when they switched from the brass radiator to the black radiator cars etc. And in general over time the bodies of a particular body supplier to Ford (Fisher, Wilson, Beaudett (also spelled Beaudette and called Pontiac in many Ford records), Kahler also spelled Kamler but probably the same supplier, and also at least one other maybe more.
The restyled (arm rest width changed and the bead on the body on the touring changed and I would guess but I do NOT know if the bead on runabout body also changed) later 1921-23 bodies will also fit but they have a lower front seat. So if they are used on an earlier chassis the gas tank needs to be changed from the round style to oval style. But the hood/radiator etc. Still all remain the same.
Over time those different body makers tended to use less wood and more metal in the structure/frame of the body (an exception was 1918-19 when some but not all of the body makers went back to using more wood).
To my knowledge, I do not know of any 1917 touring or runabout bodies that originally used a metal floor board riser. And according to Bruce's material Beaudett was one of the first Ford body suppliers to switch to the metal floor board risers - and I do not know of any of them having a metal one from 1918 or earlier.
I don't want to SPAM your email in box, but if you drop me a note (click on my name and my e-mail is the 3rd line down), I will send you (or anyone that wants one) a free copy of RV Anderson's article where he rewooded a 1923 runabout. The club allows us to do that to promote our club, hobby, and to help get a few more Ts on the road. That 1923 was also a low cowl but did have the metal floorboard risers and some additional metal bracing that replaced wood that a 1917 body used. But information on some of the other parts and how to fit the door etc. should be helpful.
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For anyone contemplating “rewooding a body” my number one recommendation would be to start with as complete a body as possible as it makes it much easier in the long run. As mentioned above for a 1915 – 1923 there were variations based not only on the year range but also how the body panels experience some stretching as the car was used over time. But there were also several different body makers for the open cars up until Ford introduced the high cowl open cars (1924 model year). Ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm where it says:
JUN 26, 1915 Factory Letter
"Hereafter when ordering body panels for 1915 cars, please give both the car and body numbers. The body number will be found on the right sill just inside the front door. This number will be preceded by a letter which indicates by whom the body was made.
"The above information is necessary as panels for bodies made by our various suppliers vary somewhat."
Below are some photos Leon Parker provided of a 1915 Beaudett touring body he restored. Note that the front floor board area has an additional wooden board in front of the seat that the later Beaudett bodies did not have. That was replaced when the front seat heel panel was modified to replace the board next to the front seat. That board was not removable (it was screwed in place) and the regular floorboards fit the body just fine. (Thank you Leon of the photos and all your support to our hobby!)
If you have a Beaudett body, it would probably be the same and if one of the other body makers, it would be very similar and perhaps even the same.
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Hap, thanks for the info and pics.
The floor board riser, you almost need an old one or set of plans to work off. There are angles and notches in it and the firewall braces that need to all fit together. My suggestion would be to go to Fordwood.com and (I think you can) buy a pair or contact Leon and see if you can buy just the drawings for that piece.
I have purchased some of the wood already from fordwood. My problem was the floor risers aren't on the diagram or list for 1917-22 roadsters. When I talked to Anna at fordwood, she said she could send me risers from the earlier roadster and that should work. So far the wood that I have got from fordwood is very nice. Thanks for the pictures and input.
The risers are the same touring or runabout. The 1915/16 should be the same. The ones shown in the the diagram part No 218 (17-22) is just the wood strip the cowl panel gets nailed to. The price list of body parts list the risers as 1915 to 1922 for the torpedo (LOL that's how they list the runabout)
The touring shows 21 to 23 but that might be the metal one. It does not list under touring, the pre 21 so my guess is the parts people would have know that earlier wood riser was used.
(Message edited by redmodelt on October 01, 2016)
I put some pictures in the forum titled" 1915 roadster body wood". I found them with the search.
Thank you for posting the reminder. The link to that posting is: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/523488.html and it has some great photos of a 1915 Beaudett runabout body wood.
Did you find any sort of letter on any of the wood or the front seat heel panel? Also note that the way Beaudett did the tack strip for the top is a little different from some of the other makes -- at least in the 1915-16 time frame.
If you get a chance please post some photos of your body -- especially the seat frame area. It may have been a metal or a wooden seat frame. The photos that Dave had Steve Jelf post are a wooden seat frame as are the photos of the Beaudett touring body that Leon took. By 1918 I know the USA Beaudett supplied bodies were using the steel front seat and rear seat frames -- as our May 1918 Beaudett touring has the metal seat frames. I may have some more information in my files that would give us the last known wooden seat frame Beaudett touring and the first known Beaudett steel seat frame touring. From memory I don't recall if or when the Runabouts had a similar change from a wood seat frame to a steel seat frame or if they remained wooden. It may be in some of my notes, I'll try to check there later this week.
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This is my '17 torpedo runabout's floor riser structure. It is wood, just as would have been used in 1915 - 1916. Notice the riser has the body number stamped right into the wood. Some body makers, such as Beaudette, used a metal plate with the body number stamped into it instead of stamping the wood directly. Note that the original floor boards were capped in metal by the original owner, not Ford.
The interesting part is the date. In my case the date is 5 17 (you can barely see the 5 in this photo) which means May 1917. My car's engine number is 2024893, and the block casting date is late June of 1917. You ought to check your numbers to see how well they match.
Michael, did you get the body parts info sorted?
Royce, do you know the body builder of your May '17 body?