Is there a reason why, whenever members have a bad experience with inferior parts or workmanship they don't report the perpetrator who fleeced them, by name so other members don't make the same mistake? We should protect eachother.
Whenever I read a post about someone who sent something off to be rebuilt and got back shoddy workmanship, I would like to know who the vendor is so I don't make the same mistake, but invariably, the name is almost never posted. It seems like protecting the bad vendor takes precedence over protecting the membership. When one complains about a vendor and fails to mention who it is, it leaves us to wonder who it is and lumps all of the vendors who do that kind of work in the same category as the one who does inferior work. At least when the perpetrator is revealed, it lets the good, reliable vendors off the hook so they are not unfairly put under a veil of suspicion.
This happens way too often and vendors who make a living by fleecing our membership should be put on notice that, if they feel like we are easy marks with deep pockets who, out of some sense of fairplay, are afraid to do anything to them for what they have done to us, should re-think their position. They should know that there will be consequences for taking advantage of our good nature.
I hope in the future, it will become routine and accepted for members who were cheated, to post the name of the perpetrator who took advantage of them for the sake of our membership and our respected vendors who treat us fairly and deserve our business over those that don't. Jim Patrick
Out of the thousands of items carried by our vendors complaining on the forum about that vendor serves no purpose, if you get a bad part or you are not happy, call the vendor and complain all of the vendors have a return policy. I have gotten several parts that required some work to fit calling the vendor and talking it out usually ends with good results even Mac's I ordered upholstery for my Fordor and some of the panels did not fit I called them and had new panels in a couple of days no charge, too much complaining can cause a vendor to stop selling a part or stop selling to an individual, so not guilty in the court of public op-inion.
Politics plays at least a part in this. I have read at least a half a dozen negative posts about a "service provider" that advertises here describing lousy service, poor communication & a rotten attitude towards customers. They all magically disappeared within a day or two of being posted.
Bill's Auto Works
Natural reporting is all that is needed--- "A satisfied customer will tell 5 people of their experience, whereas a dissatisfied customer will tell 95 people of their experience" told to me by my first boss, a grocery store manager. I have been around long enough to find out it is true.
The reliable vendors, selling quality parts, providing outstanding service are regularly praised on this forum. If one can't take a cue from that then what is the point of chastising the chronic bad actors?
Just as there are some vendors whose service and parts do not measure up to the "expected norm" there are customers who are impossible to please. Would we want the vendors to call out those people by name?
Although you have a reasonable request, in my limited lifetime experience I have seen many consumers misusing a good product and then complaining because it "did not live up to expectations".
Screwdrivers are not chisels nor paint can openers. Crescent wrenches are not hammers, and there is a limit as to how long of a "persuader bar" one can put on a box wrench or ratchet wrench before the wrench breaks.
Yes, there are some who sell an inferior product , but for those vendors who bend over backward to satisfy a customer to have them maligned by an ignorant customer would do more harm than good - I believe.
I don't know about the product, but I can comment on service. I tried to order new 30x 3 1/2 demountable rims. I called twice, left massages,no call back, then sent an E-mail asking if they were still in business, still no response. Luckily my rims are good but aren't a matched set, so I will use them. I think people don't want to risk liability by using a business's name.
Here's an idea,
Let's make a list of the vendors we get great service from and why we prefer to deal with them. Running down people or vendors can become a slippery slope.
Let's keep things positive and try to help the good vendors.
I have had Great service from; Bobs, The coil Doctor, lLangs, Ron Patterson, and John Reagan.
I think I understand why folks are reluctant to post names. As illustrated by the above posts, there are many valid reasons for not doing so.
I recall several months ago, one member mentioned the name of a vendor he was having trouble with and it backfired on him. He became the victim twice as he was attacked on the forum by friends and satisfied customers of the vendor. Who needs that?!
Thank you one and all.
I have no objection to posting a warning IF the dissatisfied customer has contacted the seller and given him a chance to make it right. Most dealers are smart enough to give decent service, and want to correct errors.
But that's after the fact. It's better to know who the good guys are before you plunk down your dough. I've had nothing but good experiences with: R.V. Anderson, Berg's, Birdhaven, Bob's, Chaffin's, Coil Man, Coker Tire, Fun Projects, Lang's, Lucas Classic Tire, Stutzman Wheel, and Rock Auto. There are probably at least one or two others I'm forgetting.
I'm a Power Seller on eBay and sold and shipped a part to someone a few weeks ago. Got an email from him saying he did not get the part even though UPS showed it was delivered. He demanded a refund. I investigated and talked to UPS about a possible claim on his behalf. UPS indicated the item was left at his front door and they would not pay a claim and I adviseed the buyer of this. He got on another forum and made me out to be Adolf Hitler. Then he PM'd me and said his neighbor had just texted him about some packages that he picked up off his porch so they would not get stolen. His part was in this lot.
No apologies. No post on the thread about his mistake. Just the "damage" that was posted on the internet for ever and ever.
It's a different world than leaving a bad review with the BBB.
I put the following on the board at out weekly company meeting:
The first thing my employees said was the first one was wrong. I told them that I got no credit for getting the other 11 right.
People talk about the one bad experiences and forget about all the good ones. One thing wrong erases all the good.
I see this in my Plumbing business all the time. And worst of all most people never call to let us know and fix their concern. They just call someone different the next time they have a problem.
When the wife and I go out to a restaurant and if something about the food doesn't suit us we don't go back. We go to the ones we like and pass by the ones we don't. Their still in business and some people must like them I guess because their still open. We've noticed this at the small growing city close to us. Things have a way of taking car of themselves. I'll leave those folks alone who don't like where I eat and hope they enjoy where they do their dining. Nuff said.
How many folks do you know who will admit to going to McDonalds? And yet they sell billions and billions!
I guess we need to come up with a "bad burger" list and report them. I like Whataburger here in Texas. They are doing pretty good in this area. They have been remodeling and enlarging some of their stores and adding a new one here in there. I pass by the other guys most if not all the rest of the time. Just couldn't help it.
And sometimes it's not the vendor, but their supplier of parts. I have gotten some bad parts, my vendor of choice has an excellent return acceptance.
I also have been into high performance vehicles for a long time, and not to often did a part just bolt on with out some rework. So maybe I am just used to it.
My best advice, do your research. This forum is invaluable. Use Google and type MTFCA after you other key words your searching. It will bring you to this forum Everytime
Phillip, what you say is true. Most business owners know this, and therefore go out of their way to try to keep their customers happy. What I don't get is the one T (and A and V-8 and Mustang and .......) vendor often criticized on this forum that seems to go out of their way to piss the customer off. Well, it certainly worked in my case. And my calling to complain to THEM first, before 'maligning' them on the forum resulted in them pissing me off even more.
It was MAC's!
Gee Hal, I'd never have guessed the vendor you were posting about! Uh, never? NOT!!
For those new to purchasing parts, just ask other T owners, they'll send you in the right directions. I think we have some pretty good parts suppliers, in spite of occasionally getting a bum part from them. The "little guy" is more likely to have tried out the parts they sell on their own T, so know what doesn't work right.
Thanks Hal. I guess that is the way to do it. Give the vendor a chance to redeem themselves and if they squander that chance, then they suffer the consequences.
I have heard a lot of complaints about Mac's on this forum and I'm sure their business has suffered for it. It is easy to lose a customer and almost impossible to get him back. I hope Mac's realizes this before it is too later and they discover they no longer have a customer base. Jim Patrick
I think it's the vendors responsibility to check the parts they wish to sell BEFORE they list them. Maybe even try them on their own cars, or someone they know.
I wasn't going to say anything but here goes, I ALWAYS give the vender the chance. Anyone that knows me knows I'm a stand up guy and never form a opinion on anyone unless I'm forced into it.. There has only ever been two that I ever had problems with. Of course Mac's is on the top of the list and then the other guy that I got tarred and feathered over here on the forum.. In the end he did send me back my funds, But that was after several e mails and a seven month wait to which my Model T was forced to sit inoperable in the garage under the understanding that the part was on its way when in reality he never had any intention of sending me the part or having the common decency of telling me he was not going to send the part so that I could had moved on and found part the elsewhere and would had been able to drive my model T. I was a bit amazed on the personal PM's I got regarding this person. I've got pretty broad shoulders so any of you guys that feel you need to tar and feather me again I will heat up the tar but you guys need to bring your own feathers.
I bought a new radiator for my roadster from Henry's T and A parts here in Australia, having heard of warranty problems with the US manufacturer. Besides being cheaper than doing a private import, it helps him with his business and gives me a local contact if problems occur, and occur they did.
The filler neck as fitted would not allow the shell to be fitted. The thread in the filler neck would only allow an original cap to be screwed in just 1/2 a turn. The brass casting into which the steady rod is threaded was well out of line.
I contacted both Henry's and the US manufacturer and the responses were quite different.
Henry's checked other radiators in the shipment, and found similar problems with at least one. He checked with an original shell and on two other original radiators.
The manufacturer stated they check the position of the necks with a shell before soldering the neck in place. They must just have missed mine and the second one in the shipment. There was no acknowledgement of the other problems at all.
Henry's refunded the $50 I paid to have an original neck fitted in the right place. The manufacturer did not even comment.
I have posted this to contrast the different approaches taken by different businesses, both given the same chance to respond.
My new radiator was not made by Berg's.
Allan from down under.
I've had the best experiences buying,not from the big vendors, but from the likes of Allan Bennett above and a few other members on here. Seems to me, the best new parts are made by fellow enthusiasts, not some poor Chinaman contracted by the big money making outfits like Macs.
I'm on at least one other car-related forum, and it's amazing how many of the posters will excoriate a supplier for shoddy service or parts before even contacting the supplier. When you buy a part, the least you can do is give the seller a chance to fix the problem. If he/she doesn't do so in a timely manner, then blast away!
When i travel i like McDonald's because i do not want to get sick far from home! I used to like buger king better but since they bought tim hortens and moved their adress to canada to avoid paying US taxes,they can go to hell!!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.
"Don't go somewhere else to get your Model T engine rebuilt only to get screwed. Come to Caveat Emptor Motors first!"
I am one of those people that gave Mac's a chance with parts for my Model A in-spite of numerous reviews saying they were poor.
For the record I get all my T parts from Lang's.
Mac's was true to form or true to their reputation on the forum!
I should have paid attention to what people said and saved myself a bunch of aggravation and time.
I needed a front axle nut for my model A axle, I have for a trailer. I looked at all the vendors I could find on the internet The nut cost's $2.95 for the nut & cotter pin. The shipping from some vendors others say to use were stupidly priced, one wanted $16.95 to ship a nut! I got it, along with a few other parts I can't find else where, from Mac's, again,
BTW - I do go to MacDonald's when travelling. With two big dogs in the car, I want fast service more then fine dining. I'm pretty sure that I won't be poisoned - the exception being one of their stores in Miami FL which was so filthy that I walked out (this was many years ago).
Unless things have changed in the last 10 years, a castled front axle nut for a model A can be found at any good auto parts and even at some old-fashioned hardware stores!
I am not defending anyone who makes bad parts, but sometime you have no other choice. Case in point is the 26-27 emergency brake shoes. They look great and are well made but they don't fit. The two lug shoes are mounted slightly off the correct position which expands the shoes and you cannot get the brake drum over the shoe. The problem is easy to fix by moving the shoes but the vendor will not fix the problem. We notified them 20 years ago of the problem and it still isn't fixed. But it is beyond our control and there is no alternative. So we sell the shoes but tell the buyer what they have to do to fix the problem. That is what happens when you have parts made over seas. That is just one example of the problem and the reason we manufacture all of our parts here in the USA.
Where I live, there is no "good" auto parts store but one, and they don't have it. We have no "Good old hardware" stores either, just old ones that's stock newer stuff. I can't even buy 10/24 bolts or screws. Walmart has 10/32. I have to mail order them, as with most things.
I know of what you mean, I have to drive over to Chico (20 miles) to go to Collier's Hardware, been in the same building for some 100 years, and still offer "old stuff" I even bought the rivets to repair my T's frame there--but you have to ask the right "guys" as the college kids at the counter don't know where this kind of stuff is stashed!
As of Auto parts stores, Oroville still has one, although the machine shop is pretty much closed--they used to do complete engine rebuilds back there!
I buy a lot of parts from langs with no complaints in the last few years. I buy Brattons model A Parts with no issues. If I got poor parts or service I would say. Until the model A s and T s it was restoring 65-70 mustang and the competition is terribly heavy in that aftermarket arena getting terrible parts and service is standard. So this is like heaven getting these parts from people who care about the cars makes it great..
I've been mucking around with Model T's for just over a quarter of a century. In that time I've had dozens and dozens of international shipments from various vendors in the USA. Langs, Snyders, Chaffins, Texas T, Bob's, Model T Ranch, Fun projects, Coil Man, Rootliebs, and yes, even Macs. There has been the odd problem crop up from time to time, but those problems have mostly been my own fault. Like accidentally ordering 2 of something when it was listed as a pair, for example.
Yep, I'm very happy with the vendors and the quality of the parts they sell, especially Chaffins.
(Message edited by rob patterson on October 11, 2016)
Rob, We appreciate your confidence and are especially happy that you are happy with our service. Be sure to let us know if our service slips. We are human. Glen
Brattons is the one that wanted $16.** to ship a nut!
You're welcome Glen.
My very first experience with buying anything related to Model T's was when I paid a visit to Chaffin's Garage in September 1990.
It was a recommendation from a chap in the local Vintage & Veteran car club in Canberra, Wal Hick, who suggested that I should deal with you. So, when I was taking my children to Disneyland we made a detour through Corona. I remember having to wait for you to return from (your real) work and you served me "after hours" I also remember that back then there was no internet, no email, just faxes and phone calls. I was a happy customer then, and now, after 3 more visits to your business and many shipments later, I'm still happy.
Thanks to everyone for your experiences and input. Wise advice that answered my question. Jim Patrick