What kind of accessory switch is this

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: What kind of accessory switch is this
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 06:47 pm:

This has got to be the base I'm thinking of some accessory ignition lock. A Ford cover plate fits but it's not made for a Ford key. When you turn it on as it is in the picture the slot lines up with another slot built into the base. Then when you put the cover on whatever actuates the switch goes through both and when you turn it off it won't come out of the base. So even though 3 screws hold the cover on it can't be removed without with out the switch being on, requiring the key. If I could find out what lock fits it I could buy one if one comes up on the classifieds, or I'll trade it for a Ford switch if somebody wants to trade that needs it. It looks ok with the Ford cover on but you have to turn it on and off with a screwdriver.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 06:51 pm:

Looks like a regular early type coilboxes switch. What is different? I might be blind


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 06:52 pm:

It is a Ford switch that was used on the coil box mounted switch. (1915-1919). It does use a Ford key, but not one that has a number on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 06:58 pm:

Which cover are you using? The one that says Ford Synchronized (?)ignition? I think this is the way they worked. The center thing the key goes in may have swollen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 07:24 pm:

Here is a picture of a key and the switch mechanism. With the auto-synchron cover the tabs won't fit under to hold the key in. It won't go in because it hits the switch lever. The inside is different than a Ford switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 07:26 pm:

Here's a later Ford switch with stamped cover. It's the same the way the switch works fitting in the cover


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 07:36 pm:

I've tried to modify a key to fit but there is no room between the cover and the switch lever for the tabs of the key


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 07:49 pm:

Where is the cover with the switch lever under it in off position and the key. No way to get the key in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:05 pm:

I would wager a small sum that is the switch that went on one of those oddball transition wood coilboxes. Couldn't see the difference with out a comparison. One of the earlier switch plugs would fit it in that case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

Corey - scroll down to the bottom of this post.

switch discussion

Your switch internals may be for something like the KW locking unit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:17 pm:

I have some old switches in parts. If one of these things will do any good just give me a shout.

At first, I thought perhaps your switch had been fooled with and this piece may have been installed backwards. Checking some old forum posts it became apparent that yours might be from one of the accessory locking devices.

switch-1

switch-2

switch-3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

I currently cannot get photos off my camera to post. But Corey was right. It is NOT a standard Ford switch and the Ford key will not work with it.
The one I have is a KW, similar switch to the '13 to '16 switch, and mostly complete and in nice condition. Unfortunately I do not have a key that fits the Yale Lock used to operate the switch. Assembling the switch is tricky, and requires a functioning key to line up the special internal toggle blade, and unlike the standard Ford switch, it is the lock that provides the pivot for the toggle blade. Without a key there is no simple way to use the switch. You cannot simply remove the lock. There is nothing to hold the blade in place. Without ruining a nice original accessory, I can't simply use a regular toggle blade (which I do have) because there is no post to put it on. It would require serious modifications to make the thing work. Unless I can find a key that fits. Then it would be a great piece.
My base and toggle blade look almost identical to your first posts.

I have seen covers and locks without the base at swap meets. It looks to me like you have the hard parts. If you could find the brass cover and lock WITH A KEY. The toggle blades tended to get lost, and the Bakelite bases tended to disintegrate. The brass covers tended to survive in reparable condition.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:30 pm:

Phil,If you flip the lever part over it is recessed in the middle just like the one in the picture of the KW locking switch. It fits either way. A Kingston key might turn it but nothing would keep it from falling out. I bet an original Ford lever would work, it just wouldn't have the pin through the middle for an axis but this one doesn't either and it works. I just don't like the idea of if I need to shut it off right quick having to fish a screwdriver out of my pocket or find it in the floor somewhere.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:41 pm:

Wayne, without the lock part the switch blade has no pivot so is kind of loose but I've been using it with the regular cover to hold it in. I don't have the cover on now so when I kill it I switch it back on to mag so the blade doesn't fall out. I wonder if the Ford blade would work without the pivot if it would fit in there somehow? I've got a 14 coil box, no lid and half an accessory switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 08:52 pm:

I can see how you would have to modify an original blade by grinding it flat on the back to try to make it work. I'll get either the right switch or a KW cover with a key one day. I put my 21 coil box on the 14 so I have a key. I put the 14 box on the 21. I can use the screwdriver for it. Can't drive out of the yard until I get more tires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 10:34 pm:

Corey,

It is the K-W switch base and someone flipped the switch plate over so they could turn it on. I have this one in my car and this is the outside for your base with a Yale lock.



This is the inside and you can see it seems to be what you have. I haven't had mine apart in a long time but it works great.



When you find the front, any lock shop can make that key for the Yale. You can see how the lock catches the back of the case except when the blade lines up in the "on" position so you can remove the cover.

Thank you Phil. I was looking for the pictures I took and couldn't find them. It was more than 6 years ago we were talking about those switches.

Ken in Texas

(Message edited by drkbp on October 05, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 10:49 pm:

Not the only old lock shop in Grass Valley! Most rude, unhelpful old man I have ever met!
When I first moved here, a few people said the old guy was great, and the last of his kind in the area. I took a couple old locks there, and the only time I went back was when my mother first rented her apartment here. He was the only place contracted by the apartment owners to duplicate their keys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 10:50 pm:

I forgot to clarify what coil box it is on, the 1913/14 flat top metal.



Probably would work on the 1915 slant top as well but don't take it to the old lock guy in Grass Valley.

Ken in Texas

(Message edited by drkbp on October 05, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Friday, October 07, 2016 - 02:36 pm:

Corey,

This is also where the switch case you have could have come from. This is a K-W Master Vibrator with the locking switch on it.



The only difference in the switch is the name on the lower front "MASTER VIBRATOR". The one I have on the car says "AUTO LOCK". Other than that, they are the same and either can be used to make your base functional.

Wayne - Even without a key, they are easy to get into and really not much of a lock. All you have to do is remove the three brass cover screws and twist the front cover to "1 o'clock" and line up the slots.



Not only can you start the car on Magneto, you can lift the front cover off as I posted above.

The toggle just sits in the case under the contact clips. I saw that someone broke the toggle in this unit eons ago by trying to pry it out instead of just centering it in the case and just lifting out. The unit still functions fine but as you can see, the upper tip is gone.



Ken in Texas

(Message edited by drkbp on October 07, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, October 08, 2016 - 02:21 am:

Ken P, I did manage to get mine apart. The brass was willing to be sprung enough with the screws removed that the inner slot let the front plate out. I was hoping to find a key/lock number inside and be able to order a key from some old locksmith. I have seen such numbers inside some Yale locks, but not this one. I actually have re-keyed locks myself a few times. This one doesn't look easy to do. So far, I haven't even found a key blank that fits it well. I have a couple other old Yale locks, with original keys. Even they do not fit this particular lock. I do have a couple newer keys that might be made to work. But I have not spent any time trying to modify them yet. I tried about a hundred vintage keys trying to find some that could be made to work.
This switch lock is so nice, I don't want to do anything to damage it.

That is a nice Master Vibrator unit you have there!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Saturday, October 08, 2016 - 01:33 pm:

Wayne,

The Master Vibrator is a nice one. I bought it for the coil but found out it is different as well as the name on the switch. It appears to never have been mounted in a car but the label inside the top is missing.

The key blanks for the two Yale locks are the ILCO TN3 for the lock on the K-W Auto Lock,



The blank used for the Yale lock on the K-W Master Vibrator is the ILCO 999B Y220,



Neither key will insert into the other lock but both blanks seem to be readily available. Robbie's Lock Shop charges 20 bucks to cut a key from scratch but I usually get him to make me two extra on stuff like this. I have the original keys on these two but use the copies.

I bought a running board tool box at a flea market last year and it had a Yale on it. 20 bucks for the key on a tool box I paid $10 for! The fellow I bought it from was trying to get rid of the tool box because it had no handle. I helped him with that problem.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, October 08, 2016 - 02:07 pm:

Thank you Ken!
Do drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 06:20 pm:

Original switch blade fit right in. Thank you Phil Mino. Now the Ford key fits but I lost 2 screws for the cover.


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