1913 Touring Hardware Questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 1913 Touring Hardware Questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan - Metamora, Indiana on Sunday, October 09, 2016 - 10:01 pm:

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty of locating the last few parts for my 13 touring.

I was wondering if anyone has the size of the step bolts AND nuts that connect the body brackets (top and bottom) to the firewall. Rhodda says the firewall to firewall brackets had a 13/16" head on a 5/16" coarse thread. I am not sure if they are the same or not ( I do not have one too look near me).

Is it strictly Nut - washer, nut lock washer, or is there a lock washer between the nut and washer on both the firewall bolts and body to firewall brackets.

What are the lengths of the step bolts and the windshield clip bolts as well? None of that info was given in the book.

And what hardware was used to attach the horn?

Im sure more questions to come!

Cheers,
Benjamin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Sunday, October 09, 2016 - 10:50 pm:

Suggest you contact R.V.Anderson,and/ or Larry Smith. RV has researched many of the early fasteners and sells them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Monday, October 10, 2016 - 12:09 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Monday, October 10, 2016 - 12:17 pm:

Step bolt is 1"400. In total length and .250 at the shank. The nut is .450 across the flat, .210 thick. The windshield clip screw is 1.615 total length, shank is .310, nut is .600 by .310. My 13 is a January car, and pretty original, but others may differ!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, October 10, 2016 - 12:19 pm:

Those bolts are step bolts. The two upper ones are 7/8" dia, 1/4-20 thread. You should be able to figure the length you will need. The top bolts use a thin HEX nut, brass plated steel, and the lower one(s), depending on the month your car was made, use the same bolt, but use a square nut, 7/16 across the flats. I use thin lock washers on mine, but I don't think that is original. If you find any with a 13/16 head, I'd go for it. Langs has these, and so does Bob Bergstadt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Monday, October 10, 2016 - 12:28 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Webb on Monday, October 10, 2016 - 02:38 pm:

Bobs auto parts has some of these fastners nos contact him


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Monday, October 10, 2016 - 08:35 pm:

Larry.. my car has thin lock washers under the nuts. They have a reeded edge, much like a dime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan - Metamora, Indiana on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 10:36 am:

You guys are awesome! Thanks for the info. I'm in Chicago right now visiting a friend, and hopefully tomorrow I will get out to see Bob, and scrounge around to find what I need now that I have the added info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 10:55 am:

Sometimes when I don't want a lock washer to show, I put in an internal star lock washer. They are very thin, and hardly show.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 12:27 pm:

Step bolts are readily available from http://www.mutualscrew.com/Bolts/step-steel-zinc-plated-bolts-11899.html, among others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel(Indiana Trucks)Star City In on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 01:17 pm:



I know you have seen this picture before but if you would like to stop by on your way home give me a call and you can see this car in person. 574-727-O725

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 05:32 pm:

The nut selection on the upper body bracket must be manufacturer dependent. I've seen two cars with square nuts. Mine has a hex nut, 1/2 inch wrench size. nuts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 05:43 pm:

The general rule is "carriage bolt, carriage nut." This dates from horse and buggy days.

A step bolt is a kind of carriage bolt so it falls under the general guideline.

One notable exception is the runningboard bolts on the cars that use the channel type brackets. They use carriage bolts but with a hex nut because there isn't room in the channel for a carriage (square) nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 07:27 pm:

I agree with the analogy. But, there is this picture which shows a 14 with the same hex nuts as on my car. So it seems they used both. Also, mine are brass plated as in this old photo. nutz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

Jim: I agree the upper bracket should have a hex nut on it, but the lower ones most likely have a square nut. You have an interesting speedometer mount, that angles the speedometer toward the driver. It ain't original, but it sure is neat! The one Kim posted above is the right one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 01:42 pm:

Larry.. I just looked under the floor boards and they are indeed square nuts on the lower brackets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan - Metamora, Indiana on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 08:03 pm:

Just a catchup post. After all the info you guys helped me on, and a trip to Bob's for hardware, I got a lot of the bits I needed. Scored an original set of coil box bolts for the early round hole 13/14 style coil boxes (they have the flat in the head instead of the square under the head like a carriage bolt). Found a bunch of other bolts, etc.

Then, I found this a couple weeks later, an original early 13 firewall with the lamp brackets, hood former, and even the dash shield and firewall to frame brackets!

Even got a set of original 13 windshield support rods and clips from an awesome forum member (thanks again!)

Has the larger data plate as well.

The hardwood core is in nice shape, the veneer, not so good. So my plan is to strip the veneer,solidly the core, and redo the veneer. I doubt I could get much loser to original unless I found a NOS one! So I'm extremely excited about it. I plan on now piecing together all my parts and will post some pics. Probably won't happen for a month or two. I think I'm almost 85 to 90 percent complete on the parts I need, and everyone is original.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 01:59 am:

Nice!
Thanks for the update.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 11:35 am:

Ben: That is an awesome find! You are very lucky to have that firewall. I'd like to know the serial number on you firewall plate. Would you share it with us? Jon Anderson is in the process of making firewalls now, since John Regan quit doing them. I'm awaiting mine now! Note too, that the firewall is indeed the early one as evidenced by the serial number plate, and the two holes at the bottom of each side for the early style butterfly body bracket that Kim posted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 12:47 pm:

I didn't look that close before, but on closer inspection, it appears the firewall above had the standard 1913 Stewart flat mount speedometer like pictured in Kim's car above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan - Metamora, Indiana on Monday, December 12, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

Thanks Larry! It was a lucky find, and not something that I thought I would be able to get. I am missing 2 of the firewall to firewall bracket step bolts. The certain ones from Bob seem to be a bit different in diameter, but they will have to do. I do have another set from him that will work for the body to firewall brackets.
It's interesting that you mention the early butterfly lower brackets. My 13 body had those, you can see the imprint of them. But my body has 14 style latches. So I am really curious about the change dates of these parts.
I have a 13 Stewart speedo, and it matches up with the m print on the firewall.

A month later I got lucky and found an original 13 style crank with an Original aluminum handle! Right down the the correct domed rivet head!

Here is a pic of the data plate and crank. 186807 is the number. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I thought it was a late December 1912 or early January build.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 01:00 am:

What is that part to the right of the hole for the horn on the firewall? Something with 3 holes in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan - Metamora, Indiana on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 02:22 pm:

Im not sure what that was from. Something mounted there, possible accessory?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 - 09:27 pm:

Good find on the crank handle. Did you get it from Bill Bohlen?
I picked up one at Hershey a few years ago for $20. It now lives on my '13 roadster I'm working on. The best part is, it is only worn .001"!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan - Metamora, Indiana on Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 02:00 am:

Wow! Yours is really nice then! This crank handle is worn, but not too bad. It will do of course, since I want all original parts. Actually yeah, I did get it from Bill. Picked it up off ebay. Every now and then an early part sneaks in that I can afford! hahaha! Still needing a set of original muffler brackets, front fender irons (the specific 13 ones) and a decently priced set set of forged end brake rods. I have about 2 feet of the forged end of a set of brake rods, but still looking. For as long as they made those, I cant believe how hard they can be to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 11:07 am:

Ben: I'm sure Chaffins has the muffler brackets. They are identical to the originals, and by the way they are installed with drilled bolts with plain nuts, and a cotter pin. Thanks for posting the picture of your firewall! I drool every time I look at it. The one on my '13 touring was just like it, but I loaned it to someone, and never got it back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 07:48 pm:

Larry...maybe the guy you loaned it to ended up selling it to Ben!! I ended up buying an entire correct muffler set up for my '13 last year, as it came with the '14 style. I see that on a lot of the brass cars for some reason.


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